Pipe in outerwall

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My main level toilet had its water pipe feeding from the floor. You can see that here if you look at the pipe comming thru the floor. I am about to put in granite tile so my wife wanted it on the wall (which you can also see since I did this part today).
http://ca.geocities.com/ snipped-for-privacy@rogers.com/bath.jpg
Now I am a bit concerned about freezing. The new pipe is inside the garage wall (between the garage and house actually). The garage is insulated but not heated. I live in Ottawa, Canada and it can get to -40 celcuis here at the very worst of times.
I put the pipe right up against the drywall on the inside of the house. If I properly insulate it does anyone with a good amount of experience know if I can skip out running an electrical box into the rafters and running a heating cable on the line. I tend to think this short 6" run from basement in garage wall, into bathroom would never freeze but I am looking for advice from someone who is not a pencil pusher like me.
http://ca.geocities.com/ snipped-for-privacy@rogers.com/pipe.jpg http://ca.geocities.com/ snipped-for-privacy@rogers.com/garagewal.jpg
Thanks in advance for any info provided.
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i'd still be concerned about freezing, but of course i'm not there so i can't say for sure. i had my hydronic heat system freeze up because one small section was running in the rim joist area, and it had insulation behind it. maybe you could beef up the insulation by fastening 2" of foam on the garage side or something?
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There are 4 inches of space between the pipe and the outerwall that I can currently insulate. The wall studs are 6".
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i assumed that the space must already be insulated with fiberglass. what i was suggesting as a possibility was adding additional insulation on the cold side of the wall--i'm guessing that is in your garage. or is this not the case or not possible?
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That is very cold. Have you ever measured the garage temperature at extremes? Personally, I'd be just as concerned about having a heated strip in the wall too. My guess is the builder put the water line in the floor for a very good reason. Get to like it.
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My beer freezes in the garage when it gets very cold.
I do plan to insultate as you note Marson (i.e. in my garage which is the cold side), I am just unsure if I should instal a heating coil on the pipe or not before I do that.
It really comes down to... how viable is it to have a water pipe in an outer wall without one. With one.. there is for sure no problem.
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Water freezes at a warmer temperature than beer.

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That's the same as -40 Fahrenheit. 40 is the basis of an alternative conversion formula.
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Two things. 1. I live north of Toronto. My toilet, sink and bidet are fed by pipes in an outside wall, the north wall. It is well insulated and I have never had a freeze-up even when the wind blows and temperatures drop low, maybe not quite as low as your region. 2. My attached garage, even with an insulated wall separating it from the house does not get close to the outside temperatures. It has insulated walls and door but not ceiling. Even on bitter cold days it can be several degrees above the outside temperature, often above freezing.
If your garage is similar and your wall is well insulated, I would not expect to have any problems with your installation. I agree with you, I do not like water supply lines that come up through the floor or the bottom of a cabinet. All my supply lines are routed through the walls.

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On Sun, 23 Apr 2006 23:15:18 -0400, "EXT"

Just for the record, blowing wind doesn't make things colder unless the thing is wet. Does it rain or snow at the low temps we're talking about.
**People are almost always putting out a little sweat, so the wind makes us colder. But houses don't.

I can see the floors, but when it's in a cabinet, why not?

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True, wind chill is not a factor for inanimate objects. What does happen though, is poorly sealed walls will lose heat faster as the wind carries the heat away and cold air gets forced into any openings.
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My local building supplier does not seem to think there is any such CODE.
I read the buidling code related to plumbing and can find nothing other than this:
http://www.e-laws.gov.on.ca:81/ISYSquery/IRL1E66.tmp/5/doc
7.3.5.4. Protection from Frost (1) Where piping may be exposed to freezing conditions it shall be protected from frost.
7.6.1.9. Protection for Exterior Water Supply (1) Every pipe that passes through an exterior wall to supply water to the exterior of the building shall be provided with a frost-proof hydrant or a stop-and-waste valve located inside the building and close to the wall.
(2) Where a self draining frost proof hydrant is used, a stop valve may be used in lieu of a stop-and-waste valve.
Can you expand on your comments?
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That is why it comes thru the floor instead of the wall

No one should have a 'good amount of experience' in this because its the wrong way to do it.

Electrical heat cable INSIDE THE WALL ? No no no
Forget all this stuff and tell your wife its CODE to bring it thru the floor and drill a 1/2" hole in the tile.
R
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Barry wrote:

Assuming you fill in that void between the pipe and the garage wall before you patch it, I think you will be OK. Of course time will tell.
--
Joseph Meehan

Dia duit
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Joseph Meehan wrote:

I agree. The temp in the area of an attached garage near a connecting wall to the house is going to be way above the actual outside temp. As long as there is insulation in the wall and the pipe is close to the inside wall, I don't think there will be a problem.
If you want to get a feel for how cold it really does get, put a thermometer in the garage by the wall on a day when it's very cold outside. That will give you a good idea of the temp delta.
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install heat tape on a pipe that will tolerate freezing perhaps PEX, then if and when it freezes power up the heat tape.
you might bury a remote thermostat sensor in the wall on the pipe to monitor temp in the winter
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can you tolerate the worst that can happen? if it was my own house, i'd try it, and if it froze i'd fix it and go to plan b.
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My plan is to use pipe insulation wrapped with aluminum tape then re-insulate the wall with fiberglass pink.
I will know one way or the other this winter..
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DONT insulate the side of the pipe thats warm!
Just insulate very well the side towards the cold!
In this case you want heat loss from the warm room to keep the pipe warm!
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Not a good idea. The insulation will keep the heat from reaching the pipe. Insulate behind the pipe and leave the front as close to the interior wall as possible.
Personally, I'd stick to the floor pipe and not worry. That marble floor will get all messed up if you have to cut the wall open.
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