permanent connection of propane grill to city gas?

[Nate Nagel]

Hi,

I'm sure that I just got poked in the no-no spot. SWMBO brought home some trout today and informed me that we would be grilling it later, would I please pick up a new propane tank? After visiting two Orange-Colored Stores and filling myself with the usual loathing and hatred of my fellow man (not even determining if they did, in fact, sell propane, as I wasn't able to accomplish my initial goal of finding some new watering cans, and wasn't able to find a sales associate to assist me - even after waiting at the service desk of the second store for a good ten minutes) I finally gave up and drove into Arlington to a small hardware store that I knew sold propane. I wanted to purchase a new tank, as I had only one and it was almost empty, I figured if I had two tanks then I wouldn't ever have to worry about running out and would also be able to get full use out of them and not have to return a tank with useful gas left in it for fear of running out mid-grill.

Well, first I was informed that the "quick disconnect" connector on my old tank was obsolete, so I could either get on a waiting list that they would call when they finally got some tanks in with quick disconnects, or else buy a new regulator/hose assembly for $20-something. So I bought the hose, because I figured if there was a waiting list now and the connector was obsolete, the situation was only going to get worse in the future. I didn't even ask how much the new tank was... it was

*SEVENTY-FIVE DOLLARS!* Well, being the sort of guy that appreciates a good grilled trout, and not knowing anywhere else likely to be open on a Sunday that sold propane, I bought it, but I still feel vaguely violated.

So the question is kind of a two-parter. First, is it possible to convert an old Weber propane grill to safely operate on natural gas as delivered to one's house? If so, is it legal to pipe the gas outside the house, e.g. to a connection on an outside wall on the deck, so that I could hook up my grill to it?

thanks,

nate

[Clot]

I look forward to the responses to this! Here in the UK, Nanny State Police would find so many ways to stop this plan, that you would never even consider it!

[Nate Nagel]

I'm kind of suspecting that there's a Bad Idea somewhere in there, I just don't know exactly what it is yet. If it can be overcome, however, that would be a big savings because AFAIK an empty new tank is only about $25 meaning a refill at this store would have been about $50. That's a lot of dough! My monthly gas bill for everything - heating, water heater, stove, dryer, etc. - has never been over $200, ever.

nate

[Doug Brown]

Well the best answers likely are;

1) Call Weber and see what they say, or go to their web site. and 2) Call your local gas company to see what their rules are.

But if I understand correctly you cannot use natural gas in a propane grill. You would need a conversion kit of some kind.

[Nate Nagel]

I figured that there would be a conversion kit involved, I guess my real question was more along the lines of which code governs residential gas delivery piping and what does it say about having an outdoor connection for portable appliances?

nate

Doug Brown wrote:

[Clot]

I'm guessing, but you are talking about circa 50lb. gas tanks? We have a similar arrangement over here. I have 3 gas tanks - one propane and two butane that I use rarely. One Butane is used say 0 to 15 times a year for the BBQ and the others once a year for a local Lions Club MayDay Carnival - which is tomorrow!

Pre- planning is a good thing! I got hold of the 2 Burcos (large water boilers), cleaned them, sterilised the contents by boiling, but in the process found that the propane tank was empty! No problem, the two butane have enough gas, *ugger, where's the valve? Nicked the one from my BBQ. Changing that valve reduced my personal energy significantly!

Doug@s comment re the technical issue is right, you'll need different jets.

[Steve]

Nate Nagel wrote in news: [e-mail]:

Is that Arlington, TX?

Yes. You'll have to replace the orifice with one designed for natural gas.

Yes. You'll need an actual plumber, at least in North Texas. The gas company will cut off your gas, the new work will be done, and the gas company will do an inspection before they turn the gas back on. You might be able to get away with doing it yourself, but if you mess up, your insurance company probably won't cover it. If you hire a plumber, his insurance takes over.

[Colbyt]

I will second the answers that Steve gave with the exceptions that here it is legal for the homeowner to do it in their personal residence.

The big gottcha is finding the proper orifice and you must have an internal and external shutoff here.

[gpsman]

Dunno, but if they sell a conversion kit it isn't likely to be cheap. Our NG Weber ain't nothin' fancy and it was ~$1K.

I would assume so, since it is here. Our pool heater runs on NG as well, all piped from the house. -----

- gpsman

[Nate Nagel]

To answer a couple questions in one post, I'm talking about Arlington, VA, and the tank in question that I spent so much money on is not a 50 lb deal but a standard 17 lb propane tank, hence my suspicion that the pricing is significantly higher than I'd spend if I simply used regular natural gas.

nate

[Jim Yanik]

Nate Nagel wrote in news: [e-mail]:

here in FL,it's cheapest to go to an ACE Hardware store to get a propane grill tank filled.

[Colbyt]

Those are 20 pound tanks and only the rip-off "exchange" places put 17 pounds in them. BlueRhino for one will even give you a tank that can not be refilled elsewhere. Sounds like "restraint of trade" to me but I just vote with my pocketbook by not buying their product.

If you can run your own line or have it done cheaply the NG will be far cheaper. Propane heat costs more here (KY) than electric does.

Ducane makes a convertible grill. Whether yours is or not can only be answered by the MFG.

[Robert Neville]

How do they enforce that? It's been a few years since I was forced to use them, but the last time I exchanged a tank it had the same valve as a standard tank and they plastered the "You Own It" banner all over the tank.

[Baron]

While you may have to get a different valve in the grill, it should be fine.

I have an old Charmglow grill hooked up to city gas. When the development I am in was built some 40 years ago, the builder installed these grills outside every house. I have replaced every part of the grill over time except for the housing. It is possible that the grill valve is a special type and since I only replaced it once, I simply used whatever valve the manufacturer called for. We have a shutoff valve in the basement just for the line going to the grill but other than that, it is really a straight forward hookup. It's nice not to have to deal with propane tanks and such. The downside is that you can not move the grill if the wind so dictates.

Good Luck.

[Phil Again]

In South-East Michigan--

My outdoor grill powered by Nat. Gas, has a splitter at the outside gas meter (after the meter of course), a shut off valve and then some buried copper gas line to the back yard and then up into the support column for the grill. The maker of the Grill, sells two types of burners and flame control valves for the basic model of grill: One for Nat Gas, the other for propane.

Propane is hotter, and burns with out all the water in the fuel. Propane is much closer to the heat generated by hardwood charcoal. My grill's Nat Gas burner is, IMHO, a slower and cooler cooking grill than a equal sized propane burner. Slower, more control, and gets the job done but nix the charred burned outside and raw 'still got the Moo' inside.

BTW: the support column is encased in a deep concrete footing. The thin concrete stones I use for a backyard patio may shift with the freeze/ frost each winter, but that grill and that buried gas line ain't going nowhere, no how. Had to go below winter freeze line depth. May not be a problem where you live.

Different States, different laws. Many places where I live will just refill your tank and charge you going rate. None of this Tank exchange so many BORGS and hardware stores have. They, the Auto Gas Stations that offer Propane sales, have all the conversions and adapters. Only problem is you must pay the going rate for Propane. Ain't cheap no more. Just like Gas for car.

Back to your question: You just might have to buy a new grill for Nat Gas. Check Weber web site to see if they offer a Nat Gas conversion kit.

Phil

[Joseph Meehan]

...

In short that new fitting was mandated some time ago. As I rememberr it was for safety reasons.

Chances are you can modify your grill to operate on natural gas. Usually it is a single inexpensive part required.

The new pipe may require a permit and likely will be subject to local codes. For that you will need to contact your local authorities. I strongly suggest that you follow the local codes and get the proper permits.

[Doug Miller]

I'm sure *that* is a no-no -- but if you take the wheels off and fasten the legs to the deck, it's no longer portable. Weber can tell you if there's a conversion kit available.

[Rudy]

Dont have to find em.. a 'professional" BBQ supplier shop here will take in your whole burner rig (you take it apart) and DRILL OUT the existing orf's to the proper size. This works Propane TO NG as the hole gets bigger.. Wont work NG to Propane.

Now If I'd known that they weren't REPLACING the orifices (but simply drilling them out) I could have done that myself..but admittedly I didnt know what size bit to use. Now, if anyone asks, I can slip a drill bit into my setup, find out the size and let them know.

Our place has a built-in NG 'quick release' hookup for the BBQ out on the deck out back. The gasline was plumbed when house was built. Later the gas guys came back and attached the Quick Release valve..no additional permit or inspection required here.

R

[Rudy]

Wheels "off" Not required here. Mine is on a 12' flexible rubber hose and still has the 4 wheels/casters on it so I can move it over when its time to hose down the deck.

[Colbyt]

Only a certain % of the tanks can not be refilled. When they need to replace the OPD valve they replace it with one that needs special tools in order to be filled.

So if you must use these bad guys get the newest tank or the oldest looking valve.

They also re-certify the older tanks so some of the smucks at Home Cheapo and Slows trade in a brand new tank for one that may be near the EOL 17 year period.

Be you can't tell what I think of their business plan. :)

Colbyt