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wrote:

Coming right up...
" A rare type of stony meteorite which contains large amounts of the magnesium-rich minerals olivine and serpentine and a variety of organic compounds, including amino acids. Although fewer than 100 carbonaceous chondrites are known..."
<http://www.daviddarling.info/encyclopedia/C/carbchon.html
Do you *really* think that's where Earth's petroleum came from? Rare meteorites, of which fewer than a hundred are known? Get real.
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Doug Miller (alphageek at milmac dot com)
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Doug Miller wrote:

What percentage of the rocks that hit in the Age of Planetesimals were Carbonaceous Chondrites? What is the percentage mass of such rocks that is organics? What is the mass of the Earth?
The numbers do add up, if you care to look.
....Brock.
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wrote:

Nonsense -- they don't even come *close* to adding up. What part of "rare .. fewer than 100 known" do you have a hard time understanding?
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Doug Miller wrote:

That's bit's of loose space-rock sitting on the surface of the earth. We are fairly sure some of the asteroids are Carbonaceous Chondrites. Carbonaceous Chonrites are rich in volatlies and thus much more likely to pop on entry to atmosphere.
And, last I looked, there was less oil than crust, and there isn't a lot of crust on the earth... you might even say it was "rare" in relation to the rest of the planet...
....Brock.
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Explain how you can look under the crust. An ancient meteorite crater that pierced the crust has oil and gas coming out. That's more than enough to justify a reasonable measure of skepticism on the whole theory of biotic origin.
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Hogwash, in so many, many ways. Just for starters... name *one*, just *one*, meteorite crater anywhere on the planet that "pierced the crust".
Another: oil drilling, and all known oil deposits, are *in* the crust. Not "under" it.
Further: hypothetical oil and gas seeps around your hypothetical meteorite crater implies *nothing* about the origin of said oil and gas, but rather demonstrates only that the meteorite fractured the crust above an existing oil and gas deposit.
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http://www.americanfreepress.net/RFA_Articles/Natural_Gas__Oil_Occur_Natural/natural_gas__oil_occur_natural.html
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wrote:

that "pierced the crust". Link you posted says nothing about that, and in fact doesn't do anything except re-state the same old unsubstantiated baloney you've been spouting.
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JoeSixPack wrote:

I find references to using techniques developed for terrestrial oil exploration <on> Mars as part of the search for evidence of life on Mars, but absolutely no indication of any oil being discovered on Mars.

Aaah! A little searching uncovers much--including the following little tidbit of info. While there's a lot of links to others they're all pretty far-fetched at best.
No Free Lunch, Part 2: If abiotic oil exists, where is it?, by Dale Allen Pfeiffer
Copyright 2005, From The Wilderness Publications, www.fromthewilderness.com. Siljan, Sweden
One of the most notable efforts to prove the existence of abiotic hydrocarbons was undertaken by the Swedes at the urging of Thomas Gold. ....
From 1986 to 1992, two commercial wells were drilled in the Siljan crater, at a reported cost of over $60 million.2 Only 80 barrels of oily sludge were taken from the field. While Dr. Gold claimed this oil to have an abiotic origin, others have pointed out that the early drilling used injected oil as a lubricant, and that this is the likely origin of the oily sludge.3 It has also been mentioned that sedimentary rocks 20 kilometers away could have been the source of hydrocarbon seepage.4 Others have observed that during World War II, the Swedish blasted into the bedrock to produce caverns in order to stockpile petroleum supplies. ....
Even if we grant that these hydrocarbons are abiogenic (though it is a highly dubious claim), this exploration could only be termed a success in the most attenuated sense of the word. These 80 barrels of oily sludge cost investors three quarters of a million dollars per barrel. And if they had gone to the trouble of extracting the oil from the sludge and refining it, they would have had even less oil, and their expenses would have increased by the cost of extraction and refining.

Which radioactive decay process is that? As a NucE, it's one I've not come across previously...
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You really are a nutcase, aren't you?

You're confusing "hydrocarbon" and "Helium", I think.

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No, but I'll give you the benefit of the doubt on this point. The dark seeps seen on Mars have not yet conclusively been determined to be petroleum. I incorrectly interpreted such speculation as evidence.

The occurrence of helium in natural gas deposits is actually sited as evidence for the "abiotic oil" theory.
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JoeSixPack wrote:

That would be "citing" and saying something doesn't make it so...
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wrote:

I'd sure like to see an explanation of that. The conventional wisdom is that helium is formed as a byproduct of the radioactive decay of uranium and certain other elements, deep within the earth's crust. We find it in natural gas deposits, not because of some particular association between helium and natural gas, but because natural gas deposits are where we happen to drill into the earth's crust.
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wrote:

Both helium and methane are light enough that they would have long ago escaped into space, had they not been trapped in the earth's crust after having been formed somewhere below that impervious layer.
Did you ever stop to do a mental calculation of how much organic life would have had to be buried perfectly below an impervious layer before decomposition broke down the body mass, to account for all the world's known petroleum deposits? And after that, how much of the body mass would have remained buried instead of decomposing into the atmosphere? It seems a lot more far-fetched to believe the biotic origin theory than the abiotic one, where those compounds forming deep in the earth and percolating upward. The chemistry has been verified experimentally to happen at pressures similar to those found only 100 kms and deeper below the surface. Use some logic and save your skepticism for the least credible theory, not the most credible one.
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One has to wonder what all these dead animal carcasses are doing buried miles beneath the earth's surface. There must have been a huge race of groundhogs then.
If everything gets buried where the hell is all the extra dirt coming from when the continents are slowly erroding away?
wrote:

Both helium and methane are light enough that they would have long ago escaped into space, had they not been trapped in the earth's crust after having been formed somewhere below that impervious layer.
Did you ever stop to do a mental calculation of how much organic life would have had to be buried perfectly below an impervious layer before decomposition broke down the body mass, to account for all the world's known petroleum deposits? And after that, how much of the body mass would have remained buried instead of decomposing into the atmosphere? It seems a lot more far-fetched to believe the biotic origin theory than the abiotic one, where those compounds forming deep in the earth and percolating upward. The chemistry has been verified experimentally to happen at pressures similar to those found only 100 kms and deeper below the surface. Use some logic and save your skepticism for the least credible theory, not the most credible one.
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snipped-for-privacy@hotmail.com (Solar Flare) says...

Helium is an inert gas that seeps through anything. Methane is a chemically active substance that forms hydrates with water to form methane ices at temperatures as high as 50 degrees. Technically these methane ices are termed clathrates. The bound methane is not a gas, and doesn't escape anywhere.

Most petroleum reserves are found under salt domes, where ancient seas laid down thick organic deposits, then dried, sealing the deposits under a layer of impermeable salt. This all happened long before the earth had an oxidizing atmosphere. You will recall that the earth has only had free oxygen in its atmosphere for the last 600 million years. Prior to that, the earth enjoyed about 3 billion years of anaerobic fertility. The comments about fossil fuel being decomposed dinosaurs are a JOKE, only taken seriously by the uneducated. Even coal deposits mostly date from the carboniferous, about 350 to 300 mya, an era dominated by insects, crustacea, and the first 4-footed animals, mostly amphibians. Coal deposits far outweigh all petroleum reserves, and nobody denies that coal is fossil plant matter.

You forget that the issue is not theoretical. They have to drill wells into oil bearing strata, and big paychecks depend on the process. They have studied core samples from oil wells, and the oil occurs in biotic strata, not in abiotic strata. Your theory is unfortunately running afoul of cold, hard fact.
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(Solar Flare) says...

Until you can concoct a way to dismiss away all of this: http://www.enviroliteracy.org/article.php/1130.html
....your declarations are running afoul of cold, hard fact.
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wrote:

Yes, of course. But what's the point?

Well, that's exactly what I did... and exactly why I believe the biotic-origin theory. You'll have to do a little better.

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wrote:

Say what?

Uh-huh. Sure.

Absolute nonsense. There is *no* radioactive decay series that produces hydrocarbons in any fashion.
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Doug Miller (alphageek at milmac dot com)
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Duane Bozarth wrote:

Well, a neutral article covering the basis ishttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abiogenic_petroleum_origin
Or for something a little more in depth: Authors:    Rasmussen, Birger1 Source:    Geology; Jun2005, Vol. 33 Issue 6, p497-500, 4p NAICS/Industry Codes:    4227 Petroleum and Petroleum Products Wholesalers Abstract:    Petroleum generation largely occurs through the thermal decomposition of organic matter. The presence of oil-bearing fluid inclusions and pyrobitumen in Archean rocks suggests that similar processes operated us early as ca. 3.25 Ga. However, direct evidence of petroleum generation from potential source rocks is lacking, and an abiogenic origin has been proposed for some Archean carbonaceous residues. Pilbara craton ca. 3.2 Ga and ca. 2.63 Ga black shales were found to contain abundant kerogenous streaks and laminae, as well as bitumen nodules (comprising a radioactive mineral core surrounded by a carbonaceous rim) and pyrobitumen (formerly petroleum) globules, films, and aggregates. The bitumen nodules formed around detrital radioactive grains via polymerization of fluid hydrocarbons generated within the shale and represent diagnostic indicators of oil generation in ancient shales. The bitumen globules, films, and masses are preserved within anthigenic pyrite and demonstrate that a separate hydrocarbon phase had developed in the shale matrix during burial, providing compelling evidence for in situ petroleum generation and expulsion. The abundance of bitumen nodules and residual pyrobitnmen in black shales across the Pilbara craton suggests that hydrocarbon generation from kerogenous shales was a common phenomenon during the Middle to Late Archean. The petroleum was generated from organic matter that accumulated in marine environments, most probably comprising the remains of photosynthetic and chemosynthetic organisms, pointing to a sizeable biomass as early as 3.2 Ga. [ABSTRACT FROM AUTHOR] Author Affiliations:    1School of Earth and Geographical Sciences, University of Western Australia, Crawley, WA, Australia ISSN:    0091-7613
Carbonaceous Chondrites are meteorites that have a large percentage of what is effectively crude oil in their substance, some of it in a matrix much like oil shale. Also remember that helium is all sourced from oil/gas wells.
....Brock.
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