Pella door leaks

I have a 4 year old house where the back door (Pella steel) leaks on the bo ttom corners. I can see the water on the wooden rail on the threshold and seems to only occur on the two corners vs the middle. The weather strippin g is wet on the bottom half of the door where the door compresses into it w hen closed and the corner pad is completely soaked. Doing a visual inspect ion the seal when the door is closes seems tight (except the top corner on the knob side shows some light). Can you give any advice on what to check/ try?
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On Friday, February 14, 2014 3:11:08 PM UTC-5, Greg Rodenhiser wrote:

bottom corners. I can see the water on the wooden rail on the threshold an d seems to only occur on the two corners vs the middle. The weather stripp ing is wet on the bottom half of the door where the door compresses into it when closed and the corner pad is completely soaked. Doing a visual inspe ction the seal when the door is closes seems tight (except the top corner o n the knob side shows some light). Can you give any advice on what to chec k/try? A very small amount of water leaks onto the interior floor.
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On Friday, February 14, 2014 3:11:08 PM UTC-5, Greg Rodenhiser wrote:

bottom corners. I can see the water on the wooden rail on the threshold an d seems to only occur on the two corners vs the middle. The weather stripp ing is wet on the bottom half of the door where the door compresses into it when closed and the corner pad is completely soaked. Doing a visual inspe ction the seal when the door is closes seems tight (except the top corner o n the knob side shows some light). Can you give any advice on what to chec k/try?
Attempting some pictures https://plus.google.com/u/0/115375182336403760518/posts https://plus.google.com/u/0/115375182336403760518/posts https://plus.google.com/u/0/115375182336403760518/posts
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On Fri, 14 Feb 2014 12:17:29 -0800 (PST), Greg Rodenhiser

Sorry I can't offer any suggestions, but it does look like it will be a growing problem.
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Greg Rodenhiser wrote:

Hi, My take on this is not a local leak(door/seal). Look under threshold around door frame to track down where water is coming. Do you have overhang(door sheltered from element above) or door opens into facing outside directly. Hope it's not bigger problem.
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On Friday, February 14, 2014 3:43:34 PM UTC-5, Tony Hwang wrote:

he bottom corners. I can see the water on the wooden rail on the threshold and seems to only occur on the two corners vs the middle. The weather str ipping is wet on the bottom half of the door where the door compresses into it when closed and the corner pad is completely soaked. Doing a visual in spection the seal when the door is closes seems tight (except the top corne r on the knob side shows some light). Can you give any advice on what to c heck/try?

The door opens to the outside directly. The only reason I'm thinking a loc al leak is the wetness seems to start between the door and frame (like I sa id the weather stripping is wet where the door compresses against it) about halfway down and onto the threshold sides.
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It looks like the rubber gasket is missing from the floor side, there is a track but no upward facing bubber gasket that normally would be pressing ag ainst the bottom fo the door. A picture of the whole setup, and then more zeroing in on the problem area would be much better than a few apparently r andom photos.
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On Friday, February 14, 2014 4:47:54 PM UTC-5, snipped-for-privacy@sbcglobal.net wrote:

a track but no upward facing bubber gasket that normally would be pressing against the bottom fo the door. A picture of the whole setup, and then mor e zeroing in on the problem area would be much better than a few apparently random photos.
I'll work on taking better pictures, these were just a few random ones I sn apped this morning. As I mentioned, the air gap in the picture I showed do es allow a very small amount of blowing snow in during windy storms this wi nter.... My thinking was this gap was allowing water to run down the door frame and collect at the bottom. This is where I feel moisture (the kerf s tripping is wet and that entire corner pad is wet. My very uneducated gues s is water run down the verticle sides and collects at the bottom. Weirdly the top half of the vertical kerf stripping is completely dry. I'll work on getting better pictures this weekend. I'm handy with some things, but f or water intrusion type issues, I'd rather bring in someone who knows way m ore than I do.
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message

Is all this correct?
1.The door swings out
2. The threshold is in two parts... a) ribbed aluminum b) wood which is higher than and butts on the edge of the aluminum
3. The doorway is more or less in line with the walls of the house; i.e., there is no porch or appreciable overhang over the doorway.
Questions:
1. does the aluminum threshold slope well outward?
2. what is the brown, rectalinear object low on the jamb in photo #3? __________________________
Looking at the photos, these are my observations...
1.The miter between top and hinge side casing is open; water can enter there.
In the same photo I can't tell if the door is fully closed or not; if it is, there is a considerable space between it and the hinge jamb and water could easily enter there. If that gap exists, you should install a stop; i.e., a thin, narrow strip of wood that touches the door when the door is closed; it should be on both side jambs, top one as well. One can buy smallish, self adhesive weather stripping to attach to the edge of the stop where it touches the door. This is the sort of weather strip I am talking about, stops need to be about 1/2" thick or more... (Amazon.com product link shortened)
2. Water can enter at the edge between the aluminum and wood threshold. It would be far better if the Al threshold were wider and incorporated the higher part in it. I don't have tons of door experience but that's the way all my outswing door thresholds are.
Even if the Al threshold were wider, water can - and does - enter where it meets the jambs. That's because the Al thresholds generally have a piece of wood under them and the jambs are stapled to it. That means the edge of the Al butts against the wood jamb, the jamb extends below the Al and water runs into that joint. Built like that, they will always fail. The same is true of your wood threshold abutting the aluminum one.
IMO, most of your water is from these two places. The condensation on the door isn't helping either...I'm guessing that the staining and rust around the wood threshold fasteners are mostly attributable to that. If you wind up keeping the wood part, change the fasteners to bronze, brass or stainless steel. ______________________
The water is eventually going to rot both the wood jambs and the wood threshold against which the door closes. I've had to repair several rotted jambs. What I did was...
1. Dig out all the rot all the way back to whatever they are fastened to (in my case, that was concrete block)
2. Fill the dug out area with Bondo, sand and paint.
3. Assure that there was about 1/4" gap between bottom of jamb and threshold, fill that gap with a good caulk. _______________________
Your *BEST* fix is to build/have built an extension to the house extending out 4' or so; sort of a mini-porch.
Your next best is to replace the Al & wood thresholds with a wider one of Al which incorporates the higher portion. If you do that you need to make sure the entire doorway is properly wrapped as per Oren's post...if there is ANY way for water to enter, it will.
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On 2/14/2014 2:11 PM, Greg Rodenhiser wrote:

I can see the water on the wooden rail on the threshold and seems to only occur on the two corners
Two of my neighbors and I had the same problem. We all built our houses over the space of several years. All of our steel doors leaked to some degree.
This was more evident with us because of the length of time we were living in the houses and the time the floors were finished. (Years)
Take a good look at the door where the threshold meets the door frame. I don't believe it is possible to completely seal that area from water leakage. Rain will hit the door and run down into the corners. The water then wicks in under the corner of the door frame and probably under the door itself.
We all tried a number of ways to stop the leakage but the only thing that worked was to install storm doors. That keeps the inside door dry. No more leakage.
I'll bet that many of you with this type of door have the same leakage problem but don't realize it because the water is leaking in under the finished floor and is not visible from above.
After a heavy rain has wet the outside of the door for a while probe around the corners of the threshold where it meets the floor. Don't be surprised if the sub floor is soft and wet.
LdB
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On Friday, February 14, 2014 3:11:08 PM UTC-5, Greg Rodenhiser wrote:

bottom corners. I can see the water on the wooden rail on the threshold an d seems to only occur on the two corners vs the middle. The weather stripp ing is wet on the bottom half of the door where the door compresses into it when closed and the corner pad is completely soaked. Doing a visual inspe ction the seal when the door is closes seems tight (except the top corner o n the knob side shows some light). Can you give any advice on what to chec k/try?
Okay, think I MAY have found the source, at least it doesn't look right to me.... I uploaded a few more pictures to give a better idea. The door is a swing in door with a plastic jam. From the outside under the door I can clearly see the wood rail of the threshold, guessing you shouldn't? The cl ose up picture depicts the door completely closed.
My thoughts are:
1. door needs new weather stripping etc.... 2. door is just a bad design and should be replaced 3. put up a storm door
Also to note, my walk out basement (same side of house) has the exact same door and symptoms (water on the two corners of the wood rail in the thresho ld. The basement is unfinished giving me great access to look all around t he door frame from inside the house, I can't see any obvious signs of water within the frame and there's no water leaking onto the cement basement flo or, just the rail gets soaked.
Here are a few more pictures:
https://plus.google.com/u/0/photos/115375182336403760518/albums/59810992904 87074449
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On Friday, February 14, 2014 3:11:08 PM UTC-5, Greg Rodenhiser wrote:

bottom corners. I can see the water on the wooden rail on the threshold an d seems to only occur on the two corners vs the middle. The weather stripp ing is wet on the bottom half of the door where the door compresses into it when closed and the corner pad is completely soaked. Doing a visual inspe ction the seal when the door is closes seems tight (except the top corner o n the knob side shows some light). Can you give any advice on what to chec k/try?
The door swings in and the threshold is plastic. I've taken a few more pic tures:
https://plus.google.com/u/0/photos/115375182336403760518/albums/59810992904 87074449
This shows the install from inside and outside. Should I be able to see th e rail like that from the outside? I have the exact same door on my walk o ut basement, its also on the same side of the house. It has the same sympt oms. Since the basement is unfinished I'm able to get a pretty good view b etween the door frame and house frame. Everything is dry and see no eviden ce water ever got in. I can also look under the door threshold of the door in the pictures (from the basement, no sign of water getting down there ei ther).
My thoughts are:
1. door needs better stripping at the bottom 2. bad design rip out and replace 3. get a storm door and hope that eliminates the issue
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Does the external visible portion of the door sill slope downward away from the house so that melting snow/ice will drain away from the door? The clo se-up of what I guess is the door sill does not look like the door sill sho wn in the series of external photos.
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Yes the external sill slopes downward... I'm going to try adjusting the wooden portion under the door tomorrow, what's the term for that part?
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