Pea stone/gravel for a parking pad

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The local government insists that no cars or vehicles be parked on unpaved ground. I'm planning to put pea stone down and wonder what sort of preparation is required.
When my neighbor did this, they just dumped a LOT of the stone on the ground and spread it out. As you can imagine, stones went everywhere and the area was impossible to walk through because you would sink into the stones. The stones got onto the lawn from snow shoveling and banged up the lawnmower blades and occasionally sent missiles flying through the air. I'd like to avoid that, if possible, although it may just come with the territory.
Am I correct in assuming that pea stones are roundish, cream and white roundish colored stones about 3/8" in diameter while pea gravel has more ragged edges? Does anyone have pricing information for their area so I can compare the quotes I get from the several places I will be calling in the next few hours? I realize location makes a big cost difference but I am just looking for gross data points.
How much would it/should it take to create a "pad" for a minivan?
The precise wording of the ordinance says that as long as the wheels are on stone, brick or gravel, they can be just runners that the tires sit on and the whole area need not be covered in building material. I think that would look tacky, but it might be easier to control the pea stone by digging two parallel trenches, lining them with a layer of sand and then filling the trench with the stone.
Thanks in advance for your input,
--
Bobby G.



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You may want to check out what is called Crusher Run. It is rock that starts off about 3/4 of an inch rock and finer . Sort of like you just take a big rock and start crushing it up and get anywhere from almost dust up to the 3/4 inch stones.
The stone is not very much , maybe 10 to 15 dollars per ton. I would think maybe 5 tons would be plenty for just one car to park on. The other cost is for the truck to deliver it. Total may run from $ 150 to $ 200 depending on the area and how far the trucks have to go. If you are very far from where the rock is, there may be an added cost.
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<stuff snipped>

Yes, I've seen that listed on the product page of one of the local stone suppliers. I just selected pea stone because a) it's mentioned by name as an acceptable material in the ordinance and b) it's what my neighbor used before she had concrete poured. Ironically about a month after it was poured the city came and cut it up to repair the pipes leading to the water meter and made what was then a very obvious repair. It seems to have aged and become less noticeable.

I am seeing numbers running exactly as you quote, varying a little based on the quality of the stone. All white pebbles cost more than gravel, etc. $157 per 1 (what that represents they don't seem to say but I am thinking maybe that's a cubic yard. I am still waiting for a callback from the city about what exactly will get them off my back. This is all because one neighbor called the parking police on another neighbor so they came out an ticketed as far as the eye could see. A reminder that neighbor wars spread just like international ones. )-;
Thanks for your input, Ralph
--
Bobby G.
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At least your cops are upfront about what's going to happen ("don't make me stop the car and come back there you kids!")
--
Bobby G.



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On 7/24/2013 8:43 AM, Robert Green wrote:

It's not what you've planned to do, but have you thought about using permeable pavers? You could either pave the entire parking area or just do a couple of runner tracks for the tires to rest on. The pavers can be filled with gravel or planted with grass. Here's a look at a driveway made with TurfStone permeable pavers:
http://www.mutualmaterials.com/homeowner/products/hardscape-products/pavers-and-architectural-slabs/environmental/turfstone
or http://tinyurl.com/l7y74jl
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I am not sure that they will make the authorities happy. Also, I am not sure exactly what you mean by permeable pavers. I am not much of a landscaper

Great. Thanks for the URL's
I am guessing from the wording of the ordinance and what I know from other neighbors getting hassled that grass growing through the pavers like it is in the pictures will set them off in a ticket-writing frenzy.
I have considered asphalt or concrete to make a real driveway, but I'd really rather not, if only because I feel that the city is forcing me to and I hate being forced to do anything. In the long run it's probably the right thing to do, though.
--
Bobby G.



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On Wednesday, July 24, 2013 10:55:58 AM UTC-7, Robert Green wrote:

However, having read through all the comments, I come away with the feeling that the pea gravel cart is pulling the driveway horse (block that metapho r!).
Personally, I wouldn't mess with any kind of gravel. Too much downside.
I'd just either dig out two trenches to the requisite depth and pour concre te for two driveway runners. Even an inept DIY like moi could almost do it .
Check with your Urban Masters to see if you're allowed to plant between the runners. That may not be such a great idea, if your car is parked there a lot. Years ago, I busted my buns to dig out and modify the soil between m y runners and seed grass. Well, you just know that it all died because did n't receive any sunshine!!!
BETWEEN the runners might be a place to put gravel, but not the tiny kind; as others have observed, it tends to fly around. If you can afford it, put grow-through pavers between the runners. Your Urban Masters might not eve n notice, since your car's wheels are on solid concrete runners.
Another (inexpensive) solution might be DG between the runners, but remembe r it has to be moistened and FIRMLY compacted.
Interesting project; keep us posted.
HB
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news:09d061e6-431c-4d46-be00-
<Bobby, I can empathize with your objection to being forced to do something!> Thanks.
However, having read through all the comments, I come away with the feeling that the pea gravel cart is pulling the driveway horse (block that metaphor!).> Groan! (-;
<Personally, I wouldn't mess with any kind of gravel. Too much downside.
I'd just either dig out two trenches to the requisite depth and pour concrete for two driveway runners. Even an inept DIY like moi could almost do it.>
I'm reluctant to DIY concrete. I've not had exceptionally good experience with it.
<Check with your Urban Masters to see if you're allowed to plant between the runners. That may not be such a great idea, if your car is parked there a lot. Years ago, I busted my buns to dig out and modify the soil between my runners and seed grass. Well, you just know that it all died because didn't receive any sunshine!!!
BETWEEN the runners might be a place to put gravel, but not the tiny kind; as others have observed, it tends to fly around. If you can afford it, put grow-through pavers between the runners. Your Urban Masters might not even notice, since your car's wheels are on solid concrete runners.>>
Much depends on what they say. So far they have been tacking notices to my door, sending in the mail and messenger pigeons will be next.
<Another (inexpensive) solution might be DG between the runners, but remember it has to be moistened and FIRMLY compacted.
Interesting project; keep us posted.>
I wish they would just go away. My landscaping guy is coming over in a little while to discuss the issue. We'll see what he recommends.
--
Bobby G.



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message

Excavate, put in, confine edges, compact. See below. _________________

Gravel is generally considered to be water rounded stones of whatever size.
If I were going to put down an aggregate I would prefer crushed stone or crushed concrete to gravel; the rounded edges on gravel make it more "slippy". I would also want a mix of sizes up to around 3/4";again, the mix of sizes makes it less slippy.
BTW, crushed concrete makes a good base for pavers or bricks, concrete or clay (better). Where I live, you could get a 10' x 15' brick pad for about $750. All materials and labor.
Whatever you put down, you'll need to contain the edges to keep it from spreading out from weight. Concrete makes a good edging. Just digging a ditch maybe 6" wide and several inches deeper than the excavated area for your pad and filling it with your rock would help. Whatever you put down needs to be compacted mechanically; ground too, if it was disturbed.
How thick do you need it? No idea. I would guess 3-4" depending on what the soil is. ________________________
A couple of alternatives come to mind...
1. two parellel ditches 8" deep and 16" wide. Put concrete blocks in them, fill with dirt, plant grass.
2. washout. Washout is what is rinsed out of cement trucks after delivery. Around here it is free but you need a truck to pick it up and a way to spread it around. It doesn't set up hard like concrete but does firm up considerably.
--

dadiOH
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wrote in <stuff snipped>

It seems the sight of grass inflames their ticket writing glands. (-:

Sounds like a good way to keep "the Blob" contained. I guess that means calling some local cement companies to see if they have it, but it sounds fairly tricky to deal with and I am not sure I want it in my minivan!
Thanks for your input, dadiOH.
--
Bobby G.



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wrote in <stuff snipped>

Thanks. There sure are a lot of different stone/rock/pebble/gravel types out there.

That makes sense. I remember walking (or trying to!) on my neighbor's freshly laid three inch deep pea stone driveway and it was a little like quicksand. When she tried to roll the lawnmower over it the wheels just pushed up a huge ridge of stone making it almost impossible to move it.

I was quote $1200 by one guy I know. I thought that was a little high, but since I have no idea of how much elbow grease is involved, it may even be low for my area (Wash, DC).

See my comment earlied about "The Blob." I'll bet if I went to the CCTV archive I could edit together a time-lapse of her driving slowly spreading out and disappearing.

I think that's what they said in the ordinance. I guess this is the time to find it and post it here. I'll respond to the rest of your post in another reply:
---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ---------------- It shall be unlawful to park any motor vehicle on the unpaved area of any residential lot, except during a snow emergency. "Unpaved area" shall mean any surface not completely covered by asphalt, brick, block, concrete, gravel, crushed stone or structurally sound porous material. It shall not be necessary to provide a full platform in the surface material under the parked motor vehicle so long as the wheels of the vehicle rest on runners or other surface made of said material. Both city code enforcement officers and parking enforcement officers shall be authorized to enforce this section of the City Code. In the performance of their duties under this section, city enforcement officers are hereby authorized to enter upon private premises in order to place a parking citation on a vehicle parked in violation hereof if the vehicle is clearly visible from the street. Any restraint or hindrance offered to the entry of a city enforcement officer or the placing of a parking citation on a vehicle by any owner or tenant, or agent of an owner or tenant, is a misdemeanor. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ---------
Sounds like if I park the van in the backyard, I am off the hook. My wife may not like that idea although if it's parked outside the bedroom, I could hear anyone trying to steal it at night - again!
--
Bobby G.


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On 7/24/2013 10:52 AM, Robert Green wrote:

probably because of pm10 ordinances that were passed in the last 10 years. i had a gravel front yard, and still got a ticket for parking my car on it. i just moved it to the graveled side yard, put in a gate, and presto, it was legal.
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<stuff snipped>

Unfortunately this jurisdiction has a history of retaliation. The day after I submitted a property tax appeal I got cited for three niggling offenses as a way of saying "we don't like people who question our judgement."
--
Bobby G.



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"Robert Green" wrote in message <stuff snipped>

Unfortunately this jurisdiction has a history of retaliation. The day after I submitted a property tax appeal I got cited for three niggling offenses as a way of saying "we don't like people who question our judgement."
--
Bobby G.

What town is this. I never want to move there. WW
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The poor guy was forced to smoke so much crack by the FBI trying to frame him that his mind turned to mush. Or so the local legend goes. I was a fairly newly-minted reporter for the now defunct Washington Star when Barry was catapulted to fame over the Hanafi Muslim incident:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1977_Hanafi_Siege
<<Then-D.C. Council member, later four-term mayor, and current D.C. Council member Marion Barry walked into the hallway after hearing a commotion and was hit by a ricocheted shotgun pellet which lodged just above his heart. He was taken out through a window and rushed to a hospital. The gunmen had several demands. They "wanted the government to hand over a group of men who had been convicted of killing seven relatives - mostly children - of takeover leader Hamaas Khaalis. They also demanded that the movie Mohammad, Messenger of God be destroyed because they considered it sacrilegious.">> Sounds like not much has changed in the world.
At the time my "beat" was Embassy Row so I was attending dinner parties at least twice a week and that's where I learned that Barry's Ebonic speech was something he could turn on and off at will. He used it mostly to appeal to his homeys. Since then, I learned that more than a few politicians adjust their speech to fit their audience. His wife used to bomb around the city in her little Mercedes convertible with "EFFI 1" vanity plates and total immunity from the cops. She nearly blew me off the road doing what must have been 90mph on the stretch of US 50 that runs through DC.
What's not to like about Barry? He finally got a mass-transit system for DC: the worst, pork-laden Metro system in the world, staffed by every hack to whom he owed a favor. They got involved in some reciprocal tax-writeoff deal with Spain(!) that went very sour in the crash. The resulting (massive) lack of funds for maintenance and new rail cars led to a horrific crash (that nearly killed a friend):
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/June_2009_Washington_Metro_train_collision
<<In 2006, the NTSB cited the 1000-Series cars as "vulnerable to catastrophic telescoping damage and complete loss of occupant survival space in a longitudinal end-structure collision". It recommended refurbishment of the entire series after a 2004 collision at the Woodley Park station in which a 1000-Series Rohr car telescoped into another train.>>
So what's not to like about Marion? He provided wonderful, nearly zero-work jobs for so many of his friends! Is that not the job of a good leader? (-: (At least it would be funny if it weren't so damn sad.) If you really want to laugh/cry, look up "DC metro escalator problems." It confirms that Metro is the worst-run organization around.
Well, perhaps except for the WSSC (water authority) whose graft, corruption and mis-management caused legendary water main breaks so as the one requiring residents in tony Bethesda to be evacuated by helicopter. A ruptured 80" main can provide a whole lotta water in very little time. Residents said the main exploded like a bomb and the resulting crater did look exactly like a bomb hit. WSSC claimed when it moved to its palatial new HQ paid for with a surcharge on the area's water bills, it somehow lost all the maintenance records for the water mains and couldn't tell which mains needed inspection. It was the Keystone Cops meets the Water Authority - and the people lose, big-time.
One good thing about DC - their outright ban on handguns led to the Heller decision ended such draconian gun control. Lots of people left DC because they couldn't even have a handgun in the home although very many of them did. (-:
--

Bobby G.





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It sure bogged down the lawnmower to the point it had be carried, so it makes sense.
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Bobby G.




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Hi Robert,
One of the prerequisites to reading AHR is that you must know every This Old House episode by heart.
(Kidding.)
Anyway, I'm 99% certain they did the pea stone deal by pouring some kind of tar, then the pea stone then a roller. Search around for the episode.
--
Dan Espen

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writes:

Actually, I used to record them on my DVR faithfully every Saturday. Finding any one episode would be painful because they're not very well categorized. I'll look on-line. Good suggestion.

That would prevent "the Blob" from occurring. Worth a shot. I saw a product that's pea stone embedded in wire mesh but it's hideously expensive.
Thanks for your input, Dan!
--
Bobby G.

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Hope you find the episode. I can't remember what they did for the base but they were doing some old house and wanted a rustic look. They may have done asphalt first. It did look pretty good when they were done.
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Dan Espen

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<stuff snipped>

Was this it?
http://www.thisoldhouse.com/toh/article/0,,211820,00.html
--
Bobby G.



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