PDF of 2011 National Electrical Code posted

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On Sun, 24 Apr 2011 17:16:42 -0700 (PDT), "hr(bob) snipped-for-privacy@att.net"

Let's make sure we're clear on this. I live in Morton Grove, Il. The electrical code for Morton Grove is the Chicago Electric code. It's the Chicago electric code that is online. Amendments that apply to Morton Grove are on the Morton Grove website.
Just Electric. Morton Grove codes for plumbing, HVAC, etc aren't available online. They refer you other code books, but do have amendments that apply to Morton Grove.
This is the website for Chicago codes. You have to hit "more at the bottom to get the electric chapters. Division 27. It ain't as pretty as a book. And I have no idea how it compares to NEC. Do me a favor will you? If you actually read through the codes and find a part that says "Refer to NEC 2011," keep it yourself, ok?
http://preview.tinyurl.com/6rttvs
--Vic
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Well, I didn't find it boring. That kind of story makes my blood boil, but I've lived with them all my life. The foundation and basement of my parent's house was built by the son of Sam the Plumber DeCavalcante. (<g> he was a high school friend of mine and he built a fine basement).

Based on the court case that was brought up here on Sunday, it's all moot, anyway. It's Katie Bar the Doors -- copyrights are broken once a code is incorporated into law.
I don't like it, but that's the way it is.

I read that court case (5th Circuit) and I can see their reasoning for it. As a practical matter, the NFPA's membership has an interest in getting it accepted and widely used. So there is an interest there that, the court says, overcomes any problems with who is paying whom.
I just watch out for the underlying principle. For most of my life, copyright has been an important issue in my work. I just don't like the idea that people should get all of that work for free.
This time, I'll reverse myself on the issue for this particular set of circumstances. It's not like a private, individual writer having his work taken away.
BTW, my library has a good set of code books and I've used them for over 30 years. They're in the reference section so you can't take them out, but it works for me. If I were working on my plumbing or electrical night and day, like I did 30 years ago, I might feel differently.
--
Ed Huntress



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I tossed this one out to see the reactions. I worked for MITRE, which is structured as a private company doing public-interest consulting funded by federal contracts, another approach to expert technical assistance not subject to bureaucratic and political overhead.
I took the governmentese writing classes, though I wrote only manuals and circuit descriptions. The instructor mostly discussed the various administrative models from the rule-based formalism of a bank to the wild-west power struggles Harold Geneen encouraged at ITT.
We have never agreed on a single model for functions that combine private and public interest. We range from phone-pole monopolies for otherwise private utilities through complete government control (NASA), and some like water works may flop back and forth. Fire departments were once private companies. In the case of the NEC volunteers create standards that become law, a de facto practical compromise between private special interest and elected authority.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Federal_Reserve_System According to the Board of Governors, the Federal Reserve is independent within government in that "its decisions do not have to be ratified by the President or anyone else in the executive or legislative branch of government." However, its authority is derived from the U.S. Congress and is subject to congressional oversight.
jsw
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wrote:

My son works for one of those policy institutes, in health care. It works mostly on government consulting contracts, with some foreign and private contracts tossed in.

That's a dilemma that results from inherent conflicts between a democratic government and private capitalism. We muddle through, but it's a case-by-case thing.

The Federal Reserve is one of the most extreme cases. It depends entirely on the ability of the decision-makers, and their integrity in the face of political pressure.
So far it's worked amazingly well, but we are now living through some of the consequences of ideological conflicts within the Fed. There is no way that I can see to improve it. Having Congress control it would be an absolute disaster -- as it was, before the Fed was created.
--
Rf Jjimytrdd



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wrote:

HAHahohoho...my fingers slipped off of the home keys while I was watching TV over my shoulder. <g>
--
Ed Huntress

(Rf Jimytrdd, indeed...'sounds like a Lapp reindeer herder...)
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On Mon, 25 Apr 2011 13:44:34 -0400, "Ed Huntress"

Over your shoulder? I have put my desktop on a portable laptop cart like this: http://www.walmart.com/ip/Mainstays-Computer-Cart-Black-Silver/11061200
Only I have it pushed over to the right and turned 90 where the long part is sticking out in the room. I can see my TV and my computer at the same time. The cart is over far enough so my recliner can put out the leg rest. The tower is also turned 90 so it fits entirely on the cart.
I still can't figure out why nothing gets done around here. :)
(BTW there is no way the tower in the picture can be a mid sized tower. The cart is too narrow for it to fit the way it looks in the picture) My mid sized tower measures 18 inches front to back. The outside to outside distance of the two uprights on the table are only 10 3/4.
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wrote:

That's very nice. That's a lot like the setup I used years ago, although yours looks a lot nicer. Mine was a converted typing table. Now I have a home-built corner desk that faces directly away from the TV. Usually I just sort-of-listen to the news, but there was something I wanted to see and, from habit, I just kept typing.
I always type my name so I don't forget it. d8-)
--
Ed Huntress



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On Mon, 25 Apr 2011 14:58:55 -0400, "Ed Huntress"

I am sitting in my Laz E Boy with a wireless keyboard on my lap, system unit and monitor are on a table next to me and the big screen is in front of me. There is also a PC connected to the big screen with a wireless workstation so I could use that if I wanted but it is mostly a MP3 and Netflix machine when it is not on the satellite. My wife has her monitor on the wall next to her chair and the system unit is behind the chair. If you count the 3 DVRs there are 6 computers in this room (also 3 in my computer room, one in the kids room and one out by the pool)
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On Mon, 25 Apr 2011 15:57:08 -0400, snipped-for-privacy@aol.com wrote:

There is no better computer chair than the Laz E Boy.

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One of the three monitors in front of me is a small HDTV, a 22" Vizio plugged into the computer that records HDTV. Usually it's switched directly to the TV cable and the power-hungry computer turned off.
jsw
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On Sat, 23 Apr 2011 19:44:27 -0500, Steve Barker

Refresh your newsgroups. It is new. I see it
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On 4/23/2011 9:40 PM, snipped-for-privacy@aol.com wrote:

thanks for the suggestion. still not seeing it.
--
Steve Barker
remove the "not" from my address to email
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On Sun, 24 Apr 2011 20:50:23 -0400, "Stormin Mormon"

Maybe your ISP is blocking it. I know Giganews has it because I clicked the link in the OPs note and went right to it in Agent.
I looked and there were a bunch of old NSA documents that were more interesting to me. The ones on the German Enigma machine are pretty cool. (declassified public domain stuff Ed)
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On 4/24/2011 11:13 PM, snipped-for-privacy@aol.com wrote:

i found it. i had to scroll down through the list, first picking alt, then binaries, etc. It would not search out by typing it in. Seems i've had this issue before with TB.
didn't find any NEC on the group, however. As a matter of fact, there was only ONE post in the whole group.
--
Steve Barker
remove the "not" from my address to email
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Steve Barker wrote:

Really? I see over 4 million new headers in that group.
--
You can't fix stupid. You can't even put a Band-Aid on it, because it's
Teflon coated.
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RE: the ethics of downloading the code.
No harm, no foul. I would never buy a hard copy, 'cause I just don't need one. Nor will I ever likely need one. My downloading the PDF does not cause the loss of a sale to the NFPA & hence does them no harm.
Having it available for online reading is (almost) exactly equivalent to downloading it. The only difference being the ability to print the downloaded version. But maybe you can print it online, too. If the NFPA provides it online for reading, how could they care if it's available for downloading?
Bob
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They don't let you print if. If you need a printed copy, buy it.
--
Ed Huntress



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Because it is THEIR property. YOU don't get to decide whether there's a difference between reading it online or downloading it. THEY do. So does copyright law.
There are reasons why NFPA would want to keep control over the printing and distribution of their materials.
Here's a couple of scenarios in which their lawyers would be very much interested: Suppose that this rogue PDF file is out there and, for some reason, it has be come corrupted. Perhaps some words got dropped, perhaps some numbers got changed, perhaps some troublemaker changed some stuff. Now imagine that someone built to this bogus code and...
1) Failed inspection and had to do a lot of rework and was very pissed at NFPA for allowing this to happen
2) Burned the house down with loss of life.
Do you really want to trust your lifer or, perhaps your customer's life to a document you downloaded from piratebay?
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