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RicodJour wrote:

If you used an actual news-reader client, instead of Google Grops, then you'd experience a more complete and satisfying usenet experience.

We call them septic fields around here.

What we don't know - is this for a patio area?
Or to park vehicles?
If the latter, then he might want to look into this:
http://www.invisiblestructures.com/grasspave2.html
========Grasspave porous pavement is a structure which provides incredible load bearing strength while protecting vegetation root systems from deadly compaction. High void spaces within the entire cross-section enable excellent root development, and storage capacity for rainfall from storm events. For example, a 13 inch cross-section (one inch Grasspave2 with sand and a 12 inch base course) can store 2.6 inches of water - 13 inches x approx. 20% void space). Stormwater is slowed in movement through and across Grasspave2 surfaces, which deposits suspended sediment and increases time to discharge. Suspended pollutants and moderate amounts of engine oils are consumed by active soil bacteria, which are aided by the system’s excellent oxygen exchange capacity.
http://www.invisiblestructures.com/images/gp2cross290.jpg

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vv0PyOu6QXM
======= This seems appropriate for either a patio or driveway:
Gravel-Lok Natural Stone Porous Driveway

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QkGJpBpbZ8o&feature=related

Seems to use some sort of bonding agent flowed over compacted aggregate material of your choice to create a solidified block or layer that is completely permeable:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UP_j1GCYFfA

This is what it looks like when it's torn apart:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fg2-dZtGM8U

Product brochure:
http://www.lifetimepavers.com/gravellok_full_brochure2011.pdf
One thing is clear: There are a whole lot of choices available today when it comes to outdoor paving / parking / walking surfaces. To what extent they can be installed by the typical high-performance home handiman is an open question.
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I wrote:

Found this on the web:
==============CELL-TEK GEOSYNTHETICS, LLC
Technical Data: Gravel-Lok Hydrophobic Polyurethane System
Description: Gravel-Lok is a moderate viscosity, single component, moisture curing liquid designed to stabilize aggregates for foot traffic and light vehicular traffic. It is ADA compliant for wheelchair access.
Application: Pour or pump onto stones to be stabilized. Do not spray (atomize). Allow 24 hours to cure. If rain is expected, the area should be covered with a plastic tarp. Application is not suggested if the temperature falls below 50°F or rises above 90°F. Coverage rates will vary with soil conditions. Typical coverage is 15 – 20 square feet per gallon. =============== Basically what we have here is a rigid hydrophobic polyurethane liquid that cures when exposed to air (ie - water vapor). There are many polyurethanes that do this (PL-Premium construction adhesive is one example).
I would imaging that the average high-performance home handiman could obtain a similar material from a construction supply shop that may not be marketed exactly for the same purpose, such as this:
=============DURAL MUD LOCK Hydrophobic Polyurethane Soil Stabilizer http://www.euclidchemical.com/product_detail.asp?idW0&pselect#5&cselect37&tselect (8 ============= Or for the limey's around here:
===========http://www.elichem.co.uk/p-14-aggregate-gravel-bonding-resin.aspx
EL151SB/NC Aggregate Bonding Resin is a clear polyurethane resin specifically formulated for use as an aggregate- bonding material for driveways and paths. The resin is mixed with aggregate particles and spread into place where it sets to a durable, flexible surface. ========== What could be easier?
Buy a load of small stone. Have it delivered to your home (most places that sell decorative or landscaping products will do this). Maybe a few different types or colors. Several cubic yards of material. Small stone, pea-gravel, etc.
Prepare the area where you want to form your hard-surface pad. Set some dividers into it (straight, curved, etc) if you want to form patterns in the finished surface. Spread the stone over the area, compact and smooth it so it's flat.
Buy one (or more) 5-gallon pails of polyurethane resin, spread over the stone using a large watering can (or devise your own pouring system) and wait a day or two and it's ready to use.
I really don't think there's any need to go to elaborate lengths to prepare the sub-surface if you're not going to be driving any vehicles over this area.
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Duh - is the final surface going to be a glossy, flat resin? Through which one can see the pebbles? A little confused...
HB
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Higgs Boson used improper usenet posting style by full-quoting:

Follow those links.
Plenty of pictures and you-tube videos showing what the end result looks like.
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No piece of software will make up for someone being inattentive. I've used various newsreaders over the years, but they're static, not portable like Google Groups. I can post from my phone or an internet cafe when I travel, and I have very few issues with it. Perhaps your advice should remain in the field of home improvement?

Ummm...okay.
R
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Steve B wrote:

GOOD GRIEF, man, you will kill yourself!
We all have different pain thresholds but I wouldn't even consider prepping/mixing/pouring that much for pavers. Even prepping and using store bought pavers would give me pause. If I were you I'd check around and see how much a contractor would charge. WARNING: their prices will be all over the map but if you are persistent you can find someone to do the job for a decent price.
In my area, most all paver installs are being done by Brazilians. Some enterprising Brazilian gets a bunch of workers from his country and hires them out as a team to the contractors. The contractor adds some to his cost, the Brazilian honcho takes a cut and pays the actual workers what's left. They work hard, know what they are doing and do a good job.
--

dadiOH
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wrote:

This part we're in agreement on.

We disagree on this- unless Steve has a deadline. To me the beauty of pavers is that once the prep work is done you can go out and set 5-6 while you're waiting for the missus to fix her hair. When she comes out, you take off your gloves and get in the car. Or you can set a couple 100 when it is nice and cool one day. I have a 15' octagon that I've been playing with most of the summer. I can't ever work more than an hour & sometimes I can only do that once a week.
I did 4-500 sq' 5-6 years ago at the same pace. It still looks as good as the day I finished. [maybe better]
Jim
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wrote

I have a large tile saw and a mathematical mind. I would thoroughly enjoy making a showplace mosaic walkway in the front of my house out of pavers, and as you say, an hour here, a day there, etc. Once you get the base down, the rest flows pretty easy.
Steve
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dadiOH wrote:

He should probably also look into stamped concrete, assuming that a concrete truck can get close enough and drainage of the area isin't an issue.
I also don't know if we're talking about a large rectangular area (40 x 20, 30 x 30, etc) or is this a 2-foot wide path that's 450 feet long?
He would need 8.3 yards of concrete to do 900 sq feet, 3" deep. Or 5.5 yards if it was 2" deep.
The smaller concrete mixing trucks come in a variety of sizes, from about 3 to 6 cubic yards, and the large trucks can carry 10 cubic yards. Most will want to do an order of 5 cy minimum.
The cost per delivered yard has basically doubled over the past 5 years, to about $120 to $150 per cy.
So assuming 7 cubic yards and $140 per yard delivered, he'd be looking at about $1000 for concrete. Coloring, form work and stamping would be extra. Even if that cost another $1000, then he's looking at $2000 for 900 sq feet, or about $2.25 per sq ft.
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Issue, issue, issue. It's over a leachfield, so has to have some breathability.
Steve
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Form is 1.75" high. Need to do 800-1,000 sf.
Steve
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Steve B wrote the following:

According to http://www.quikrete.com/calculator/main.asp 800 SF of 80# bags for 4" thick slab would be 449 bags. If you only intend to have a 3" thick slab, that would be 3/4th the amount of bags, or 337 bags. For 1000 SF @ 4", that would be 561 bags. For a 3" slab, that would be 421 bags.
--

Bill
In Hamptonburgh, NY
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Steve B wrote:

You claim that your form has a surface area of 2 square feet, and it has a height of 1.75 inches.
That would give it a total volume of 0.29 cubic feet.
That much concrete would weigh 42 lbs. A single 80 lb bag of pre-mix could easily fill 2 forms.
What is the length and width of your form?
Is it 2 feet by 1 foot? Or is it 2 x 2 feet?

If your form really is only 2 square feet in area, then you will be using it 400 times to give you 800 sq feet.
It will take you a minumum of 10 minutes to mix one 80 lb bag of premix, and another say 10 minutes to pour it, smooth it, remove the form and set it into a new position and pour the remainder of the mix, smooth it, remove the form and set it into the next position. That's 20 minutes, and you'll do that 200 times. If you get good at it, let's say 15 minutes. Times 200 is 3,000 minutes or 50 hours. If you can do that for one 6-hour stretch during a single day, then it will take you 8 or 9 days.
But getting back to your form. 1.75 inches isin't very thick, but I suppose it's thick enough to support people walking on it.
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If you put a price approaching nothing on your time, then your plan starts to make sense. I invented re-inventing the wheel and perfected the messy art of pissing into the wind, but I'd still be given pause for your forms project. Pick your battles.
I'm with Jim on this one. If you advertise around - Craigslist, calling some paving contractors, etc. - and tell them you will remove the pavers at no charge, you'll get them for almost free (gas, time). You'll come out ahead on cost and time. The only issue is whether you like the proffered pavers or not. As your existing plan will take you a long time, I'd think spending a bit of time locating a suitable free source wouldn't be a big issue.
R
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The only issue is whether you like the proffered pavers or not. As your existing plan will take you a long time, I'd think spending a bit of time locating a suitable free source wouldn't be a big issue.
R
Free is my second favorite word.
Steve
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Steve B wrote:

Around here (central Florida) concrete pavers from Home Depot run in the range of $1.40 ("Holland") to $2.20 per sq.ft. If you can buy by pallets, you can get them for a lot less from manufacturers/distributers.
I had a 1750 sq.ft. courtyard done a year ago, cost me a total of $5.00 per sq.ft...$2.50 sq.ft for clay brick, the same for all other materials and labor. Clay brick is a bit more than concrete but well worth the cost IMO for the reasons previously stated.
--

dadiOH
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One of my friends did it as a base for his spa, probably 100 sq ft. Over the next couple of years it covered about 400 sq ft. He is very used to projects taking a long time.
Jimmie
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