Patio repair

I hate to bother the group with a piddly question. Nevertheless, experience is better than experimentation.
I've got a small, 10x12' concrete patio. The concrete has a crack and a slight uplift (maybe 1/4") on one side of the crack. I'd like to cover the patio with something permanent with a view toward improving its looks.
I'm thinking along the lines of some sort of leveling material, but I don't want it to subsequently go all cracky.
Suggestions, anyone?
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How thick can you make this leveling material?
With concrete moving around underneath I'm not aware of any repair options.
I know what I did and it started with a jack hammer.
--
Dan Espen

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Great quote..... I'm going to use it in the future.
Or course, if you're getting paid for the experimentation & no experience is available.... the whole process could be a lot of fun. :)
But I digress.
A couple things can be done. But the first question is: Is the crack active or is it done moving? Did the crack occur at a saw cut or is it a jagged one?
If it is still active any applied covering (if non-flexible) will crack too. :(
If the crack is done moving you could grind out the 1/4" step and fill with a cemeotious patch. I prefer a flexible self-leveling "grout", actually a Sika product that comes in a giant caulk tube, Home Depot carries it.
You could also mud jack the slab but it's so small that an R&R might more sense. A concrete pour of about 2 yds ($200?) would get you into the 5" depth range. I'd use #4 bar, both ways, at "bigger than boot size" spacing (like 15" or 16").
In SoCal, this slab would never crack (BTDT). When we "backhoe'd" the slab out for a lab expansion 5 years later, the slab (12 x 15) came up as a solid flat plate and had to be jackhammered to break it. :)
Depending on your local soil & weather YMMV. The slab might settle or heave but it won't crack.
cheers Bob
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DD_BobK wrote:

It's done.

Jagged.
Hadn't thought of a grinding activity. That's an excellent idea.

I considered taking up the existing slab and starting over. The difficulties with this approach seemed to be: * A 200-curseword job and a lot of sweat to break up the existing slab, putting one hunk per week in the trash pickup * As you computed, about 2 yards but commercial deliver for that small amount is problematic. That means (mumble-mumble, carry the 3) about 67 bags of ready-mix. At 80# each, that's 5,300 pounds and ten or so trips to HD.
I really don't think the crack is worth that much effort! If the grinding technique you suggested doesn't work out, I'll just cover it with a rug...
Asides: * Last year I scored about 800' of ceramic tile for free from a Craigslist ad. The dude had a lot of his house done with this stuff and his slab foundation began to crack and heave, resulting in tiles popping loose and cracking themselves. His solution, and you're not going to believe this, was to remove the tile and install carpet !
* Just two days ago, I scored a Craigslist concrete mixer for $90. It's a IMER Minuteman. BIG sumbitch. Handles 5 cu ft at one gulp and retails for about $650. Any ideas on how I can remove the concrete droplets and blobs sticking to its various external legs and such? I'm thinking wire wheel in an angle grinder.
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Totally agree with your assessment.
A lot hard work to get rid of a crack that may not warrant the level of effort. :(
In my area of SoCal you can get a "transit-mix" trailer in 1 or 1.5 yd loads. We also have site-mix trucks that will, using on board dry materials, mix just the amount you need.
You can also look into getting the leftovers from a larger pour. Unfortunately, 1.85yds is very small as a delivered load, the smallest load we ever bought was 3 yds, even if we need less. But 1.85 yds is too big for a single "leftover".
Often time a concrete mixer's "volume" will be spec'd based on total volume, no "mixable" volume. Typically they can only mix ~2/3 of the stated volume.
Not 100% sure but my calc for a 10 x 12 x 5" slab would require 85 bags (80 lbs) ......even more trips to HD. I based this on 60# bag equals .44 cu ft.
This online calculator agrees.. http://www.csgnetwork.com/concretecalc.html
I have a rule, well, more of a guideline......more than 1/2 yard = transit mix.
Stiff wire brush on angle will do the exterior slop. Concrete in drum, use pool acid ~1acid to 4 water. Follow with hammer (don't deform the drum) and grinder.
I've done the "poor boy" disposal trick....... it takes MONTHS to get rid of any substantial weight. :( And you've got 5000 lbs of concrete to get rid of...... at 200 lbs a week, 1/2 a year.
That rug is sounding better & better.
cheers Bob
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On 10/1/2011 8:36 AM, HeyBub wrote:

http://www.harborfreight.com/catalogsearch/result?q=needle+scaler
I forget which one of them I bought but it's a great tool for removing concrete slop!
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Tony Miklos wrote:

So that's what a "needle scaler" is used for! Thanks for the observation.
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-snip-

1. Why bother removing "droplets and blobs"? If you have enough to make it very heavy, or if some of the blobs are interfering with the function of something you need to remove-- otherwise they are like dust in your driveway. 2. a wire wheel probably won't help at all. 3. Hit them with a hammer if you really need to remove them.
It matters a lot more if it is gumming up the inside of the barrel. For that a couple shovels of #2 stone and a few gallons of water--- run someplace out of earshot until it is all shiny.
Jim
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Jim Elbrecht wrote:

Excellent idea regarding the rocks and water. Maybe I'll add some Muriatic acid to the mix.
Regarding the dribbles of concrete, I want to clean it up and paint it (some paint is already peeling with a patina of rust underneath). After my modest couple of jobs, driveway repair mostly, I hope to sell it for more than twice what I paid for it. Remember, the model is ~$600 new and I paid $90.
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On 10/1/2011 9:04 PM, HeyBub wrote:

Know anybody with even a cheap-ass sandblaster you can borrow? Even using dry play sand rather than expensive media, it should knock it smooth with little problem, once you get the hang of the attack angle. I stripped paint and heavy rust off the bottom of an old clawfoot tub that way, that a farmer had been using outside as a stock tank for 20+ years. My sister painted it green on the non-porcelain parts, and installed it in the upstairs living room of the A-frame she was living in at the time. (Too bad she left it behind when she traded in the husband...)
-- aem sends...
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-snip-

Steve and I should post pictures of ours.<g> Steve did post his once--- this isn't ours, but they look like this;
http://www.charlesandhudson.com/archives/concrete-cement-mixer-pour.jpg
Mine was $50 25 years ago and probably went for $500 new in 1950 or so. It has iron wheels and a cast iron main pulley. There has never been any sign of paint anywhere on it - yet despite having lived out of doors most of its life there is little more than surface rust & concrete on the exterior. I keep the [3 or 4] moving parts greased up well, and use it every couple years. I've probably mixed 30 yards of concrete in it all told-
What you are calling 'patina of rust' - I'd call the beginnings of a beautiful friendship.<g>. Cement mixers are the roughest and toughest of tools. After every job, hose them down good. Keep the moving parts greased. If you missed a blob last time- bang it with a hammer. I'd look askance at a guy who showed up with a shiny mixer-- and I wouldn't buy one that has just been painted. [I'd figure the seller was trying to hide something.]
But hey-- it *is* your mixer, and if it will keep you off of Usenet for a few hours, it isn't a total loss.<G>
Jim
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HeyBub wrote:

1. Grind crack highside down to approximately level
2. Clean/vacuum crack as best as possible
3. Slather urethane caulk into crack. Use backer rod if needed.
4. Paint.
--

dadiOH
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You probably ought to stabilize the slab first. Google concrete staples, or, alternatively, you could just make your own from rebar and set them with epoxy.
There are also carbon fiber staple kits...
You'll grind and/or cut a channel across the crack and glue 'er in. -----
- gpsman
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