Would like to ask a few painting type questions, please.
Live in New England.
a. Thinking ahead a bit here. In the Spring having new clapboards put up
They come pre-primed.
Will be painting them with Latex, sort of a tan-coffee color, with the
Latex paint I can find
Any suggestions re brand, etc.?
Question: Can I assume that a single coat will do it, or will two coats be
almost mandatory ?
b. Also having Andersen "New-Construction" double hung windows installed.
Apparently, they come with wood frame on the inside, but it is left as
unfinished Pine, the idea
being, i guess, that everyone will want a different color stain, so it's
What would most folks use ? Just an ordinary Stain, or would one
of the e.g., MinWax products that has Polyurethane mixed in be wiser ?
Or, regular stain, and then another Polyuurethane top-coat ?
The best quality paint isn't from the US.
http://www.finepaintsofeurope.com/ The stuff's not cheap compared to
domestic brands, even quality domestic brands, but if you can make that
$8,000 paint job last even just a year or two longer the quality paint
pays for itself.
There's no almost. Two coats or you're pissing money away on the
Depends who is doing the staining. The Minwax Polyshades doesn't
penetrate the wood as much as stain directly applied. That would allow
you to change to a lighter color stain more easily should you ever
decide to redo it. You can achieve the same effect by using a sanding
sealer prior to staining with straight stain, then topcoating with
Sounds like a crock of shit to me. They're comparing to "less than $15"
paint in the US. Well no kidding that ain't the best paint. But $30 paint
is good paint and doesn't contain crappy fillers either. $90? No thanks.
Good US paint lasts plenty long.
How much do FPE paints cost?
Most of our finishes are in the $80 - $90 per EurogallonT price range. A
EurogallonT will normally provide the same coverage as a U.S. gallon of
Why are your paints so expensive?
More to the point, why are domestic paints so inexpensive? The United States
represents an aberration in the world market for architectural coatings.
This is a consequence of the absence of performance standards for paint in
our country, as well as the unusually short average residency period (four
years for the typical family!). Under these circumstances, domestic
manufacturers have focused on producing impermanent formulations, which are
typically heavily laden with chalk and other inexpensive fillers. Quality
has been compromised in favor of low price for more than 40 years in this
country. In 2003, the average gallon of architectural coating sold for less
than $15. In view of wholesale and retail margins, packaging and
transportation costs, a $15 can of paint will seldom contain more than $2 or
$3 in raw materials.
I have used their paints, so it's not something that "sounds" like a
crock of shit to me. Do you feel $200/gallon marine paints are a crock
of shit as well?
90% of painting is in the prep work, and 90% of the time that's not
done adequately. Of course the more expensive paint doesn't make sense
for those people. If you're looking for quality work, and are willing
to do the required prep work, saving a couple hundred dollars in
materials, at the expense of longevity, is false economy.
You do know there are nylon stockings, light bulbs, shoe soles, etc.
that never wear out, right? You don't see any of those on the market,
do you? Why? Is it because no one wants them, or because the
manufacturer would be cutting into their own profits and possibly
killing their business? How do you think that would fly in a corporate
"Boss, I have a way to make our paint last twice as long!"
"Really? Will we sell more of it?"
"Errr, no. Probably about half as much."
"I see. You're fired. Don't let the door hit you on the way out."
The "nylon stockings" you refer to are also called "woolen athletic socks,"
the eternal light bulb uses a ten-penny nail as a filament, and the
everlasting shoe soles are really hunks of tire tread popularized as sandals
by the Viet Cong.
How does that square up with florescent lights, PVC pipe, or other
long-lasting consumer goods that seem popular?
Fluorescent (florescent means to blossom) bulbs aren't forever. Their
life can be roughly doubled by keeping them running constantly. The
switching on and off is what kills them before their time.
PVC pipe largely replaced cast iron, copper and galvanized iron pipe.
Those items already lasted for decades at least. They are not
For the best you prime it yourself with oil and 2 topcoats latex.
Research the aplication required by a paint Sherwin Williams guarntees
for life, you use their oil primer and paint [ their product specs may
have changed]. Another point is you know nothing about the product
quality on Pre Primed. I don`t trust Pre Primed.
If you want the windows natural just use poly, oil if you want it to
amber, water base if you want it to stay as light as possibe. If you
want a darker color wood you must Pre Stain with a shellac base product
like Bix, then stain, not a job for an amature. Or the Best painting is
Ben Moore enamel underbody, sanded with 220, topcoated with Ben Moore
Satin Impervo thinned with Penetrol, again not for an amature. You can
order your windows painted I bet..
so you enjoy the hassle and expense of constant scraping priming and
painting just to do it again in what 5 or 6 years?
while a replacement that lasts a lifetime is available at a affordable
I don't enjoy brushing my teeth, but it's necessary maintenance. I
personally don't like the look of vinyl siding, and I've seen, and
installed, too much of it. It certainly has its place, but it also
certainly has limitations.
It's not unusual for me to spend a couple or three days playing around
choosing colors while painting (not full days, mind you, there's lots
of thinking and burping in there). Vinyl siding has more color choices
than it did ten or twenty years ago, but it's still limited. I also
don't like how the corners are handled, the J-channel, the seams, etc.
My major kvetch with the "lasts a lifetime" stuff, is that it doesn't.
Vinyl siding hasn't been around a lifetime yet. It's also problematic
when renovation and additions are done. It may well be impossible to
locate the same siding.
People do everything possible to avoid maintenance on their houses.
Not a good idea. Nothing is maintenance free, and sometimes the only
reason people have to get up on the roof and poke into odd corners is
when painting and caulking maintenance is performed. No inspection, no
discovery of the problem before it grows to be a big problem.
As a professional with decades of experience, I can attest to the
quality of the European Paint, HOWEVER it's not THAT much better to
justify the cost. If it lasted only twice as long as the best paint
available here in the USA (Benjamin Moore Paint, IMHO) it would be
worth it - or if it reduced labor by one half it would be worth it -
but it doesn't do either. Mind you, it's good paint, but I don't find
it's more durable or applies any better than Ben Moore. Of course,
compared to paints like Sherwin Williams, Rodda, Parker, Glidden or
Behr - it would be worth the expense. But you will find that Ben Moore
looks just as good, lasts just as long and applies just as smoothly and
costs half as much.
Let me also echo the caution about pre-primed exterior (interior
pre-primed is ok) ALWAYS prime (and back-roll/brush) with whatever is
recommended by the manufacturer of whatever topcoat you're using. One
coat of primer should be fine, two coats of topcoat with at least 24
hours between coats. Always apply the paint (primer and topcoat) on DRY
material within the recommended temperature range for a long-lasting
Consumer Reports doesn't agree with your opinion of Benny Moore paints.
There is no way to reduce painting labor using the same equipment. The
way most people try to reduce painting labor is by cutting corners
during the prep work.
I generally figure paint at roughly 10 to 15% of the job cost using
good quality US paints, so it's not necessary for the Euro paint to
last twice as long to reap benefits.
Beyond the economics, there's the aesthetic criteria. You can't argue
that a granite countertop is an unjustified expenditure based solely on
the fact that it costs more. When was the last time someone walked
into a house and said, "Oooh! Plastic laminate!"?
Paint is the final, most visible part of the construction or remodeling
process. Not exactly the place where I'd start settling for "good
enough". The Euro paints have textures and sheens that are different
than what's generally available in the US. Some of the paints looks
like suede, and others I can't describe. US paint manufacturers are
entering that market with some of their designer paints, but the end
result is not even close. It's a start, though.
One aspect you may have overlooked, something I can't, is the depth of
color. The Euro paints use more pigment and more of them.
This part was especially interesting to me as I learned of a US
manufacturer of high end paints that I was unaware of:
" The Donald Kaufman Color Collection ($40 to $75 per gallon) is a set
of 37 preblended "full-spectrum" paints. Whereas most paints use just
three pigments and obtain a static color, Kaufman's paints use up to 12
pigments to create a paint whose numerous hues react to changing light
with much of the same richness and range of color found in the natural
I'll have to try some of their stuff. If it's cheaper to buy and gives
similar results as the more expensive Schreuder paints, I'll use it.
Karl, do yourself the favor and investigate a bit before you make posts
such as this one.
I'll do the first search for you to help you along.
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