Painting Questions ?

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Hello,
Would like to ask a few painting type questions, please. Live in New England.
a. Thinking ahead a bit here. In the Spring having new clapboards put up on house. They come pre-primed. Will be painting them with Latex, sort of a tan-coffee color, with the "best" quality Latex paint I can find
Any suggestions re brand, etc.?
Question: Can I assume that a single coat will do it, or will two coats be almost mandatory ?
b. Also having Andersen "New-Construction" double hung windows installed. Apparently, they come with wood frame on the inside, but it is left as unfinished Pine, the idea being, i guess, that everyone will want a different color stain, so it's left unfinished.
What would most folks use ? Just an ordinary Stain, or would one of the e.g., MinWax products that has Polyurethane mixed in be wiser ?
Or, regular stain, and then another Polyuurethane top-coat ?
Or,... ?
Much thanks, Bob
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Robert11 wrote:

The best quality paint isn't from the US. http://www.finepaintsofeurope.com/ The stuff's not cheap compared to domestic brands, even quality domestic brands, but if you can make that $8,000 paint job last even just a year or two longer the quality paint pays for itself.

There's no almost. Two coats or you're pissing money away on the painting.

Depends who is doing the staining. The Minwax Polyshades doesn't penetrate the wood as much as stain directly applied. That would allow you to change to a lighter color stain more easily should you ever decide to redo it. You can achieve the same effect by using a sanding sealer prior to staining with straight stain, then topcoating with polyurethane.
R
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Sounds like a crock of shit to me. They're comparing to "less than $15" paint in the US. Well no kidding that ain't the best paint. But $30 paint is good paint and doesn't contain crappy fillers either. $90? No thanks. Good US paint lasts plenty long.
How much do FPE paints cost?
Most of our finishes are in the $80 - $90 per EurogallonT price range. A EurogallonT will normally provide the same coverage as a U.S. gallon of similar gloss.
Why are your paints so expensive?
More to the point, why are domestic paints so inexpensive? The United States represents an aberration in the world market for architectural coatings. This is a consequence of the absence of performance standards for paint in our country, as well as the unusually short average residency period (four years for the typical family!). Under these circumstances, domestic manufacturers have focused on producing impermanent formulations, which are typically heavily laden with chalk and other inexpensive fillers. Quality has been compromised in favor of low price for more than 40 years in this country. In 2003, the average gallon of architectural coating sold for less than $15. In view of wholesale and retail margins, packaging and transportation costs, a $15 can of paint will seldom contain more than $2 or $3 in raw materials.
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jeffc wrote:

I have used their paints, so it's not something that "sounds" like a crock of shit to me. Do you feel $200/gallon marine paints are a crock of shit as well?
90% of painting is in the prep work, and 90% of the time that's not done adequately. Of course the more expensive paint doesn't make sense for those people. If you're looking for quality work, and are willing to do the required prep work, saving a couple hundred dollars in materials, at the expense of longevity, is false economy.
You do know there are nylon stockings, light bulbs, shoe soles, etc. that never wear out, right? You don't see any of those on the market, do you? Why? Is it because no one wants them, or because the manufacturer would be cutting into their own profits and possibly killing their business? How do you think that would fly in a corporate boardroom? "Boss, I have a way to make our paint last twice as long!" "Really? Will we sell more of it?" "Errr, no. Probably about half as much." "I see. You're fired. Don't let the door hit you on the way out."
R
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Reminds me of "The Man in the White Suit" http://imdb.com/title/tt0044876 /
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Jacque wrote:

Hey! Good call. I'd never heard of that movie, now it's on my must see list. Thanks.
R
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The "nylon stockings" you refer to are also called "woolen athletic socks," the eternal light bulb uses a ten-penny nail as a filament, and the everlasting shoe soles are really hunks of tire tread popularized as sandals by the Viet Cong.

How does that square up with florescent lights, PVC pipe, or other long-lasting consumer goods that seem popular?
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HeyBub wrote:

Let's see...no, no, and, ummm, no.

Fluorescent (florescent means to blossom) bulbs aren't forever. Their life can be roughly doubled by keeping them running constantly. The switching on and off is what kills them before their time. http://www.lightingdesignlab.com/articles/switching/switching_fluorescent.htm
PVC pipe largely replaced cast iron, copper and galvanized iron pipe. Those items already lasted for decades at least. They are not consumables.
R
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For the best you prime it yourself with oil and 2 topcoats latex. Research the aplication required by a paint Sherwin Williams guarntees for life, you use their oil primer and paint [ their product specs may have changed]. Another point is you know nothing about the product quality on Pre Primed. I don`t trust Pre Primed.
If you want the windows natural just use poly, oil if you want it to amber, water base if you want it to stay as light as possibe. If you want a darker color wood you must Pre Stain with a shellac base product like Bix, then stain, not a job for an amature. Or the Best painting is Ben Moore enamel underbody, sanded with 220, topcoated with Ben Moore Satin Impervo thinned with Penetrol, again not for an amature. You can order your windows painted I bet..
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Try Consumer Reports. They have data on various brands of paint that they have tested.
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back prime any new wood.
vinyl siding ends all the work for your lifetime.......... never peels flakes wears etc etc
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snipped-for-privacy@aol.com wrote:

All plastic houses, eh? Blech!
R
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RicodJour wrote:

so you enjoy the hassle and expense of constant scraping priming and painting just to do it again in what 5 or 6 years?
while a replacement that lasts a lifetime is available at a affordable price.............
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snipped-for-privacy@aol.com wrote:

I don't enjoy brushing my teeth, but it's necessary maintenance. I personally don't like the look of vinyl siding, and I've seen, and installed, too much of it. It certainly has its place, but it also certainly has limitations.
It's not unusual for me to spend a couple or three days playing around choosing colors while painting (not full days, mind you, there's lots of thinking and burping in there). Vinyl siding has more color choices than it did ten or twenty years ago, but it's still limited. I also don't like how the corners are handled, the J-channel, the seams, etc.
My major kvetch with the "lasts a lifetime" stuff, is that it doesn't. Vinyl siding hasn't been around a lifetime yet. It's also problematic when renovation and additions are done. It may well be impossible to locate the same siding.
People do everything possible to avoid maintenance on their houses. Not a good idea. Nothing is maintenance free, and sometimes the only reason people have to get up on the roof and poke into odd corners is when painting and caulking maintenance is performed. No inspection, no discovery of the problem before it grows to be a big problem.
R
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As a professional with decades of experience, I can attest to the quality of the European Paint, HOWEVER it's not THAT much better to justify the cost. If it lasted only twice as long as the best paint available here in the USA (Benjamin Moore Paint, IMHO) it would be worth it - or if it reduced labor by one half it would be worth it - but it doesn't do either. Mind you, it's good paint, but I don't find it's more durable or applies any better than Ben Moore. Of course, compared to paints like Sherwin Williams, Rodda, Parker, Glidden or Behr - it would be worth the expense. But you will find that Ben Moore looks just as good, lasts just as long and applies just as smoothly and costs half as much.
Let me also echo the caution about pre-primed exterior (interior pre-primed is ok) ALWAYS prime (and back-roll/brush) with whatever is recommended by the manufacturer of whatever topcoat you're using. One coat of primer should be fine, two coats of topcoat with at least 24 hours between coats. Always apply the paint (primer and topcoat) on DRY material within the recommended temperature range for a long-lasting job.
Jeff
Robert11 wrote:

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jeffreydesign wrote:

Consumer Reports doesn't agree with your opinion of Benny Moore paints.
There is no way to reduce painting labor using the same equipment. The way most people try to reduce painting labor is by cutting corners during the prep work.
I generally figure paint at roughly 10 to 15% of the job cost using good quality US paints, so it's not necessary for the Euro paint to last twice as long to reap benefits.
Beyond the economics, there's the aesthetic criteria. You can't argue that a granite countertop is an unjustified expenditure based solely on the fact that it costs more. When was the last time someone walked into a house and said, "Oooh! Plastic laminate!"?
Paint is the final, most visible part of the construction or remodeling process. Not exactly the place where I'd start settling for "good enough". The Euro paints have textures and sheens that are different than what's generally available in the US. Some of the paints looks like suede, and others I can't describe. US paint manufacturers are entering that market with some of their designer paints, but the end result is not even close. It's a start, though.
One aspect you may have overlooked, something I can't, is the depth of color. The Euro paints use more pigment and more of them. http://www.thisoldhouse.com/toh/knowhow/repair/article/0,16417,216054,00.html
This part was especially interesting to me as I learned of a US manufacturer of high end paints that I was unaware of: " The Donald Kaufman Color Collection ($40 to $75 per gallon) is a set of 37 preblended "full-spectrum" paints. Whereas most paints use just three pigments and obtain a static color, Kaufman's paints use up to 12 pigments to create a paint whose numerous hues react to changing light with much of the same richness and range of color found in the natural world." http://www.donaldkaufmancolor.com /
I'll have to try some of their stuff. If it's cheaper to buy and gives similar results as the more expensive Schreuder paints, I'll use it.
R
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On 1 Nov 2006 10:30:24 -0800, RicodJour wrote:

What the hell is "depth of color"? All you see is the very surface of the paint. What a bunch of baloney!!
Are any of these sellers of "high end" paints descendents of P.T. Barnum?
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Karl S wrote:

Karl, do yourself the favor and investigate a bit before you make posts such as this one.
I'll do the first search for you to help you along. http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=paint+formulation+depth+of+color
R
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The easy way to reduce costs is to use better paint that goes on in one coat.
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jeffc wrote:

All paint goes on in one coat. Whether it covers in one coat is another story.
One heavy coat is inferior to two thinner coats for several reasons.
R
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