Paint - still with the 'brush strokes' !!

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On Friday, August 30, 2013 11:25:52 AM UTC-4, Robert Macy wrote:

It seems like you're more interested in finding someone who agrees with your unique "problem". Pros almost exclusively use rollers for flat surfaces, eg walls, ceilings and achieve excellent results, without roller marks. The exception would be if it can be sprayed, eg new construction. Even then, I think many of them back-roll it because it leaves a better finish than just spraying. I can use a roller without leaving roller marks. I think others here have said the same. You need a good quality roller of the right nap, good paint, and the right technique.

I'd be looking at what most of the rest of the world is doing, rather than re-inventing the wheel with a complicated, time consuming process. If that Dunn Edwards paint dries so fast out of the can that you can't brush it on, I for sure would not be buying it again for starters. Maybe it's time to get some Benjamin Moore, a Purdy roller and watch a few youtube videos of pros.
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On Fri, 30 Aug 2013 09:09:04 -0700 (PDT), " snipped-for-privacy@optonline.net"

I think the biggest reason for roller marks is poor technique and poor paint. If you don't keep a wet line as you work across a wall, you can get roller marks. Under less than ideal conditions (too hot or too dry), crappy paint can dry too fast to keep a good wet line. Also, edging too far ahead can cause roller marks for the same reason. Latex paint forms a single film across the entire surface, if the wet line is preserved.

+1
Cheap paint isn't worth the money "saved".
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On Friday, August 30, 2013 1:49:05 PM UTC-4, snipped-for-privacy@attt.bizz wrote:

Agree with everything but the above. The normal procedure is to edge around the whole room, let it dry, then come back and roll the main area. You typically can't edge fast enough so that it's not dry or half-dry by the time you get to roll it. Not when you're cutting in to do a nice clean edge between ceiling and wall, around windows, etc. Also, switching back and forth from brush to roller, wastes time. And it doesn't result in roller marks as long as you roll properly.
Latex

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wrote: > > edging too far ahead can cause roller marks for the

Right. And feather both brush and roller work to get a coat of even thickness,
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dadiOH
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On 8/30/2013 3:02 PM, dadiOH wrote:

If you have two people, I've always preferred to do it where I cut in with a brush and my helper is directly behind me with the roller.
Unfortunately, that won't help at all if you're painting by yourself.
nate
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wrote:

Not my experience. I do a much better job if there aren't any dry edges when painting a single surface.

I don't have any problem doing both. I generally use a pad to do the edging (pad/roller give a more consistent surface than brush/roller). I do about 6' of edging, top and bottom, then do the center with the roller. At inside corners, I wrap around (feather) to the adjacent wall and let it dry before coming back to finish that wall. I generally do opposing walls so inside corners are dry when I start.
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On Fri, 30 Aug 2013 11:51:38 -0700, snipped-for-privacy@optonline.net

You are correct to allow the paint to pretty much completely dry before trying to overlap. Else, you get a 'gumming' that produces a slightly different [and noticeable] texture change which shows through. But for me, THAT technique does NOT work. My eye spots the overlap *and* the change in texture between brush and roller.
Someone mentioned 'professional' painters to do this. Just making a living at painting does not necessarily mean that the paint job meets the standards required. I WAS a professional painter and because of skill was the one who had to do all the detail/edging work. And I don't even like my work.
From the descriptions here, pretty much confirm the problems I have and sounds like what has been described would not stand up to 'close' scrutiny. If you closely examine the described painting, you would see what I mean. Wait until low light levels, take a hand held spotlight, shine the light so that it 'grazes' along the surface; and look at your paint jobs. Look at that cut in junction, look at those 'overlaps', they all show up. Both my wife [a professional artist] and I 'see' these patterns in normal light and for us they detract, thus the quest to paint better. If you do the spotlight check on my paint jobs, you'll see a 'metal-flat' paint surface - no brush strokes, no marks, no divots in the walls and edges. The effect in 'normal' light? Very subtle. Makes for a 'softer' look and the eye is not distracted away from the overall architectural statement.
But thanks to everyone who jumped in to help solve my problem. I've learned from many, got some great URLs and resources, and confirmation that it takes work to get good results.
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Thank you for admiring my house from ??
Good training is worth its weight. You're very lucky. Like hit the ground with your feet running, so to speak.
Don't get me wrong, about the 'perfectionism'. I still see the flaws, but they're now ignorable and insignificant to us.
Interesting comment about "...excessively high performance standards ..." ALL is relative. Who died and left them boss?
I thought I had high standards until ...I've been in homes of some, what I'd call, extremely successful people, actually describe their homes more like mansions. The workmanship was incredible, better than I can do, or even have strived for. One [surprising to me] example, while admiring two tone striping on outside columns - you wouldn't believe the quality of the straight lines down/along the inside of the flutings! To have my host proudly declare he had done that work personally! Wow! I guess his attitude of doing things right carries into his business, too. He made a lot of money, now relaxing in the fruits of his labors, by supplying products based upon those high standards of perfection. I would rather live like that than think in terms of 'it's good enough' or 'getting by'.
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On Sunday, September 1, 2013 10:05:56 AM UTC-4, Robert Macy wrote:

OK, I think everyone here probably agrees that there is a difference in texture between the edging done with a brush and the rest of the wall with a roller. It's just that you have to look real close and be looking for it to notice it. That's different than what I thought the original issue was, which was either brush marks being unacceptable and a roller leaving marks. I also would think it would be more noticeable with deep colors, higher sheen, etc.
How about edging with one of the pads? I usually use a brush, but I have tried them. Not sure I looked that closely, but it would seem the pads might leave a finish more like a roller. But maybe that's no good, because I think you ruled out a roller because you say it leaves marks that are unacceptable too. You may have such high standards for surface perfection that only perfect surface prep followed by spray painting will meet them. That's the only thing I can think of for getting a surface without any texture, marks, etc due to the application, ie what you'd get with a roller or brush. I think in the painting world though, painters frequently back-roll after spraying. They use one guy spraying to get the paint on quick, another to roll. I'm guessing that the rolling helps hide the normal imperfections in the drywall that you'd otherwise see.
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Closer to a brush than a roller IME.

There are corner rollers. The trick - for OP - is to either learn to use a roller without leaving marks or learn to accept them.
You may have such high standards for surface

That's what drywall texture is for. That and to hide less than stellar taping/mudding :)
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On Sun, 01 Sep 2013 12:57:38 -0700, snipped-for-privacy@optonline.net

I've done the drywall so they have no imperfections, at least, down to not very noticeable.
spray paint? indoors? hmmm now all I need is an 'ink-jet' type paint sprayer that creates uniform size droplets so there is very little, if any, fogging. Anybody make one? Maybe ultrasonic? piezo squirter? high voltage spewing? pressure nozzles just don't cut it, becuase the variation in droplet size is quite a wide statistical distribution, which causes fogging. And centrifigal(sp?) throwing splatters is exactly that, looks like a 'Pollock' painting.
Would there be a market for a truly 'fogless' paint sprayer?
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Ink jet paint sprayer?
Interesting idea. If you could control the movement of the printer over the wall, you could do some really interesting murals.
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Dan Espen

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wrote:

Airless electrostatic would fit the bill better than an inkjet.
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wrote:

There are airless electrostatic paint systems available that would fit the bill.
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Years ago, I met some entrepreneurials that took an Apple, concept of HP's X-Y plotter grabbing ink colors, and combined all to make billboard painting possible. But alas, Gannett was not as interested in it as we all had hoped.
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Hmm, the billboard concept is dead with the advent of giant LCD screens and something similar might happen to interior walls. I can imagine LCD tiles that change at the whim of the owner.
Still paint on wall paper, murals, or special effects could be interesting. I don't have the personality to go out and sell something like that but it does sound pretty cool.
Right now I've got 3 rooms sponge painted and I'll probably do more. Plain flat paint might become a thing of the past.
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Also if you apply too much paint an/or push too hard with the roller. Either causes extra paint to swuish out at the roller ends. If it happens, roll over them lightly to spread the excess paint around.
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dadiOH
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Thank you for the URL. I always liked This Old House until they dumped Bob Vila and went commercial. Met Bob Vila at a party once. Nice guy.
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On Sun, 01 Sep 2013 06:47:40 -0700, RobertMacy

I liked TOH *until* they hired Vila. He was nothing but a distraction. They went commercial when they hired him.
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This for a wall? A *WALL*?
Good grief.
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