Paint, Is there a big difference?

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trbo20 wrote:

I just got off the phone with ColorPlace tech support. I called the number listed on one of the gallons of their latex porch floor paint I had in the basement. I asked the guy who makes their paint. He told me Sherwin Williams.
That's just one data point, and I wouldn't take it to the bank. While I was on the phone with him, I asked about the application directions listed on the label. The label said to use an oil-based primer to prime bare wood before applying the paint. Now, WalMart doesn't sell an oil-based primer rated for horizontal wood surfaces exposed to weather and foot traffic, so what am I supposed to use? He recommended I pick something up at Lowe's. I had already looked at all the primers at Lowe's and I've yet to find one that is rated for foot traffic. I thanked him and said good-day.
Now this is VERY interesting, because about a week ago I had a conversation with Sherwin Williams tech support about some porch floor paint they make for the local DoItBest hardware/paint store here in town. This stuff costs $25 per gallon, and nowhere on the label did it mention priming. So I asked whether this was an oversight, or if they really didn't want me to prime the wood. The answer: DON'T prime the wood. Reason: their research shows that their porch floor latex holds up better when applied to bare wood. The primers don't hold up well to the foot traffic combined with the expansion/contraction of the wood due to moisture, and the primer tends to separate from the wood.
This parallels my own personal experience. I oil-primed and latex-topcoated some porch steps two years ago (because that's what the label said to do), and the primer blistered off within a year. So this year I hand-scraped and power-washed the steps and the breezeway, and put down the porch floor latex without any primer. It should be interesting to see what happens.
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Wow, that is very interesting. Not using a primer on bare wood goes against everything I've ever heard on the topic. My personal experience is that the oil primer holds and the paint wears off. I pretty much just accept that my porch needs to be top coated every two years. I've always assumed that porch floor coating is an area that modern materials science still hasn't found the ideal solution for.
I know with oil primer that's it's crucial that your wood be bone dry. Any moisture will interfere with adhesion and penetration. This is often a problem with horizontal wood, especially when it's not properly sloped and shaded from direct sunlight by a porch roof.
Thanks for sharing the follow-up.
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trbo20 wrote:

I wouldn't mind topcoating the porch floor every two years, just as long as I didn't have to get down on my hands and knees for hours scraping off blistering primer. What a mess!
What oil primer did you use, and what kind of wood do you have?
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Transparent stains don't need primer, and won't blister or flake. So you just have to topcoat.
Solid stains generally don't need primer either, and a _good_ one won't flake, so topcoating is fine.
For insurance, we always use transparent stain for decking, and solid stain for verticals and railings.
We've not had to scrape anything. Yet...
--
Chris Lewis, Una confibula non set est
It\'s not just anyone who gets a Starship Cruiser class named after them.
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Chris Lewis wrote:

Are you suggesting that I can "prime" the bare wood with a transparent stain, and then put latex topcoat over that?

Well, everything I ever read or was told by "tech support" people is contrary to that (topcoating stain).
Nevertheless, several weeks ago I used Cabot semi-solid stain under a latex topcoat on some porch steps just to see how ot would hold up compared to past efforts. I'll have a pretty good idea next Spring.

I want to make sure I understand correctly what you are saying. Are you saying you put down transparent stain, then latex topcoat over that, on the deck surface?

I use "toner" stain (between clear and semi-transparent) on my deck and of course there's no peeling or blistering. I just have to re-apply ever couple of years. I don't mind that.
But on my exposed wrap-around porch, the previous owner had painted it to compliment the house color, so I don't have the option of reverting to stain. Stripping the entire porch back to bare wood is out of the question. It's over 60 feet long and 8 feet wide.
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No. We don't paint outdoor decking/structure. The transparent (or opaque) stain _is_ the finish coat. When they wear thin, we just add another layer or two.

Nope ;-)

I think you're doomed to scrape.
--
Chris Lewis, Una confibula non set est
It\'s not just anyone who gets a Starship Cruiser class named after them.
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I'm not sure I remember, but I'm guessing it was just Sears Weatherbeater oil because that's what I have in my basement at the moment. I usually use that for exterior priming, although I understand that BM makes a much better product. As for the wood type, again, I'm not sure. I'm guessing it's just ordinary tongue and groove pine.
If you really want to make your paint job last, you might look into some industrial priming solutions. There's something called Aluthane that is supposed to be perfect for less than ideal wood surface conditions. From what I've read on it, it doesn't readily accept a latex top coat but a good scratch sanding might help that.
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trbo20 wrote:

I just found a product by Wolman called "Woodlife Classic". It is a water-base clear wood sealer that is latex-paintable. I called Wolman tech support and they assured me that it is rated for horizontal surfaces with foot traffic.
Has anybody had any experience with this product? My intent would be to use it to seal the nooks and crannies in my weathered wood porch floor (e.g between boards and at the base of railing posts where they sit on the porch floor) before topcoating with a quality latex porch floor paint.
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Actually, it's usually $0 when you can put it on in one coat rather than 2.
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In over 25 years of professional painting experience I have used many brands of paint. Overall I prefer Benjamin Moore for many reasons. I actually end up saving money [even though the paint costs more per gallon than average paint] because I need less, I don't need to recoat to get a good hide. I recently tried Behr paint (homeowner bought it) and it was so bad I got a full refund for the client. I have had similar experience with Glidden, except their primers seem to be pretty good.
Rodda, Parker Paint, and Sherwin Williams are all "ok" paint but truly nothing comes close to Ben Moore.
Jeff
Scott Townsend wrote:

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jeffreydesign wrote:

A lot of folks have praised Benjamin Moore paint but they all seem to cite the same reason: it hides well. How well a paint "hides" during initial application is only one measure of the quality of the paint. Equally important, or arguably far more important, is how well does it hold up over time. How does the fading and peeling resistance of Benjamin Moore compare to the competition? That's tougher to answer, I know, but it's a more important consideration for many people than whether or not you have to go over it a second time.
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Ether Jones wrote:

I've never understood the "hides well" argument. I rarely change exterior colors so that's never a problem for re-painting, but for new wood, doesn't everyone use a primer the same color or a touch lighter than the final paint color? I'm painting my house a deep red (same as before) and California makes a colored primer called "Russet", which is a shade lighter than the paint. I'm getting fantastic results with one coat of primer and one coat of paint. We'll see how it lasts. Even when I couldn't get a pre-mixed colored primer I had tint added to the primer to make it the right shade. I've always done it this way. Isn't this standard practice? What am I missing? Hilary
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On 21 Sep 2006 07:45:34 -0700, snipped-for-privacy@fashionsintime.com wrote:

<snip>
Consumer Reports rates Benjamin Moore poor. They rate California paint top notch. Shame we can't buy California paint in Texas.
-- jim
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jim evans wrote:

I consider myself INCREDIBLY lucky that the California paint distributor is closer to my house than any other brand name paint distributor or any big box store. The price is about $39/gallon, but hey, who cares about the cost of the paint when the real cost is the time and effort in prep. If it really lasts the 10 years Consumer Reports says it can, then it's money VERY well spent. The fact that it goes on smoothly with no drips or splatters and covers beautifully in one coat doesn't upset me either :) Hilary
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On Thu, 21 Sep 2006 20:32:38 -0500, jim evans

Which type of paint? Indoor? Exterior? Oil? Acrylic?
Which isssue of Consumer Reports?
They rate California

Can't buy it in California either, AFAIK. I checked dealer locations; none in Calif.
Wonder why? Environmtenal regs? Anybody know? Aspasia
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On Fri, 22 Sep 2006 12:13:25 -0700, aspasia wrote:

Exterior latex and I think they're all or virtually all Acrylic today.

They rate exterior paints in the June issue.

I'm confused. California is a brand of paint. It's not that it's sold in California (which it is). It's sold in many states but not all.
http://www.californiapaints.com
-- jim
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aspasia wrote:

consumer reports exterior paints rated:
http://makeashorterlink.com/?F514214DD
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Ether Jones wrote:

separately, or not at all? Also, most are flat or low-luster. Are those still popular choices?
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wrote:

As far as I know they do not rate alkyd exterior house paint.
-- jim
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Norminn wrote:

July 06 issue of CR has some alkyd exterior stains tested. Cabot was top-rated.
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