Paint for exterior window trim?

The trim paint on my windows is gloss black. Some of the windows need the trim to be repainted. The June issue of Consumer Reports has an article that includes exterior paints. But the chart does not note whether the paint is oil-based or water-based (aka acrylic). I assume all are water-based. I have always thought that oil-based paints last longer.
I'm not concerned about the oil-based cleanup. I would simply buy a bunch of Harbor Freight brushes and toss them out after each use.
Do oil-based paints last longer? Or are oil-based exterior paints no longer made? If they are made, and they last longer, does any one have a recommendation?
Don. www.donwiss.com (e-mail link at home page bottom).
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wrote:

A good 100% acrylic latex will outlast a "normal" alkyd paint. And they DO make an "alkyd modified" acrylic for use on chalked alkyd paints that sticks like snot.
Gloss black isn't the best choice for windows though ------
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On Fri, 15 May 2015 20:00:36 -0400, snipped-for-privacy@snyder.on.ca wrote:

I presume you are referring to the color, and not the gloss part. I have no choice. I am landmarked and I have to paint the window trim black. It goes best with the brownstone facade. One neighbor has brown, but I would have to apply to landmarks to change the color. And since 99% of brownstones have black window trim, I want to stick with black.
As for gloss, for acrylic paints it is generally semi-gloss. Full gloss is not that common with acrylic.
Don. www.donwiss.com (e-mail link at home page bottom).
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wrote:

Lots of good high gloss latex paints, and other water-born high gloss paints too (water born urethanes like virtually ALL new cars, for instance)

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On Fri, 15 May 2015 21:25:55 -0400, snipped-for-privacy@snyder.on.ca wrote:

I was referring to what is available in acrylic exterior house paint. That is what this thread is about.
Don. www.donwiss.com (e-mail link at home page bottom).
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wrote:

So was I when I said good high gloss latex paints. Sherwin Williams A100 gloss exterior latex. Sherwin Williams SuperPaint Benjamin Moore Impervex Latex High Gloss latex paint. Dulux Weatherguard Gloss exterior latex. or for your particular project, Beauti-tone Signature Gloss Black Latex (available only in Canada or St P{ierre and Miquelon, (France) at Home Hardware) CIL Allure high gloss exterior latex. Behr Premium Plus high gloss interior/exterior enamel (yes, it is water thinned). ValSpar Ultra Premium High Gloss Dunn Edwards Versa-Gloss PPG Regency interior/exterior Latex Gloss (65XX) PPG Wondersheild exterior gloss BLP SmoothKote Sherwin Williams Resiliance
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On Friday, May 15, 2015 at 6:28:28 PM UTC-4, Don Wiss wrote:

I haven't done any side by side comparison, but my impression is that today's good, quality latex paints last as long as oil based. I haven't used oil in years. Most recently used Benjamin Moore and it's a great product. I think some folks believe oil has advantages in certain situations, like maybe as a primer on certain woods. But for previously painted surfaces, I'd use latex.
Also, any painting authority will tell you that the idea of using a cheap, disposable brush, is a bad one, regardless of oil or latex. Those cheap brushes leave brush marks, the bristles fall out into the paint, they don't hold paint well... They are a real mess. I'd use them to slop some coating on something where it doesn't matter what it looks like or where it's some substance that can't be readily cleaned from a good brush, but never for something like a window. If you want to use oil, get a quality brush and clean it with mineral spirits.
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The window trim we are planning to paint is on the 3rd and 4th floors front, and some of the southwest facing back. The lower floors in the front don't get much sun. They are okay for now. No one is going to be able to see any brush marks or stuck-in-the-paint bristles on the 3rd and 4th floors. Nor in the back.
Don. www.donwiss.com (e-mail link at home page bottom).
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wrote:

Surprising how good some of the cheap brushes on the market today are - and how cheap some good brushes are. I've done a lot of painting in the house recently using "low priced" brushes (less than $3 canadian each) and have not lost a single bristle, and the finish has been SUPERB - using water based paint, stain, and clear finishes.
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On Fri, 15 May 2015 23:11:03 -0400, snipped-for-privacy@snyder.on.ca wrote:

Last year Harbor Frieght was very generous in distributing coupons for a free item with no purchase necessary. I was making the three mile round trip by bicycle (good exercise -- with a purpose) and picking up an item per day. I had lots of gifts to give away.
Now the coupons require a purchase. Plus there are always the 20% off coupons. So I can now buy one brush a day. After discount, and including sales tax, this one costs me $1.73, with the free gift:
http://www.harborfreight.com/2-1-2-half-inch-sash-brush-67008.html
I see now they are only recommending it for latex and acrylic paints. ??
Don. www.donwiss.com (e-mail link at home page bottom).
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On Friday, May 15, 2015 at 9:51:31 PM UTC-4, Don Wiss wrote:

Your job, your brush. But I think it's odd that someone concerned about today's latex paints not being good enough thinks using a cheap throwaway brush for window trim is a good idea.
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I don't see this. I am looking for the paint that will last the longest. The longer I can go between paintings the more money I save. The point of disposable brushes -- for oil-based only -- is also to save money. I pay for my painter's time. It takes time to clean oil-based paint out of a brush. That time would cost me more than a $1.73 brush.
Don. www.donwiss.com (e-mail link at home page bottom).
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| I am looking for the paint that will last the longest. .... |I pay for my painter's time. It takes time to clean oil-based paint out of a | brush. That time would cost me more than a $1.73 brush.
It sounds like you don't have a skilled painter and you want the job as cheap as possible. You don't even want to know anything about how to paint. You just want to have an unskilled, underpaid lackey slap on some amazing product and thereby get the best job. Your strategy is common, but not promising.
While there are differences in paints, the biggest factor will be preparation and adequate caulking/glazing. (If you put on high quality acrylic but don't caulk cracks then the wood will get wet and the paint will peel off. If you don't sand and wash the existing paint then the new paint won't stick well.) The wood can also matter: Old trim that's been weathered won't hold paint well....
But you don't want to bother with any of that. So buying good paint would probably be a waste of money.
If it's high up and done infrequently, and the old paint is oil, I'd be tempted to use black oil paint mixed with thinner and boiled linseed oil. I use that as a thin blend on rusty iron railings and it holds up beautifully. (Maybe 30% linseed oil and enough thinner to make it thin so that it will soak in.) That will soak in well and the linseed oil cures to a gummy, protective layer. Linseed oil is what's used to seal wood gutters and used to be used for fir decking on porches and stairs. It's also the main ingredient in traditional house paints. (Years ago black paint would have been linseed oil, coal dust and drier.)
Putting it on trim will be a bit drippy and won't provide a smooth, elegant film, but at 3 floors up that won't matter. And if you use gloss oil you'll still get the gloss with this mix. Boiled linseed oil dries with a semi-gloss type sheen and mixed with gloss paint will dry with a gloss sheen. If you put on two coats it should last a very long time -- no priming needed.
You can try a little first to see what you think. And best of all, it's cheap. :)
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My painter has decades of experience. He is very experienced in plaster work, as the houses around here have real plaster walls. He doesn't do as much outside painting.

The wood is not weathered. The windows are only 10 years old. This would be only the second painting for the ones in front. The sills, where there is a little weathering, he would sand. Remember my painter has decades of experience.
Some in the back (the sunny side) already have had a second painting. They may not be repainted this go round. It will be a window by window thing.
Some of the back were repainted with Impervo. I had a different painter then (the boss of the fellow I now hire directly). When the windows were new, the fellow I hired supposedly painted a primer and two coats of black oil-based paint. Looking at the job he did I can't believe he actually painted that many coats. Unless he thinned it a lot.
That painter 10 years ago was one recommended by the window people. I caught him not filling in the nail holes. I asked him to do so. He did not. He said it wasn't necessary. I had to replace one of the back windows. The nail rusted and broke and the molding popped out. This time my painter will be sure to fill in the nail holes.

Maybe that was what was done 10 years ago. Or he thinned it with something.
Looking at the front windows (the shady side) up on the top floor they do get some sun. And really it is only the sills that have paint cracking and peeling.

Labor is the cost. Not the paint so much.
You have some good ideas. My painter (and handyman) has other things to do here on Monday. So I will be able to discuss this with him then.
More important is finishing the sealer on the wood fence, and scraping and painting the iron stairs in the back. This as that is the tenant's space, and we want to get it all as nice as possible before they go all out and use it during the Summer.
Don. www.donwiss.com (e-mail link at home page bottom).
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wrote:

Then he has his own brushes, so why talk about brushes? The only times I've used cheap brushes is for touch ups. Or varnishing or painting unplaced wordwork on sawhorses, even foam works fine. Good paint self levels unless you've screwed it up. Talking about the time to clean brushes (inconsequential) misses the point. How a good brush loads up and applies the paint is where the time is saved.
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On Saturday, May 16, 2015 at 4:01:47 PM UTC-4, Vic Smith wrote:

Add in the time wasted trying to cut a decent straight line with a $1 brush or when some of the bristles go rogue, stick out and leave paint on the wrong surface, instead of the one it's supposed to go on, etc. Or paint drips from it and lands somewhere that has to be cleaned up, redone, etc.
Have to agree, I was mystified too when he dragged a painter into it. Any real painter, I've never had to provide brushes, nor would any pro painter I know accept a cheap HF brush. They have their own brushes that they know and trust. But then it's his job, his rules.
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He has his own brushes. He doesn't want to use them on oil-based paint. As I wrote, he works interior. No one around here uses oil-based paint in the interior. And many of the houses here have unpainted woodwork. So he is mostly restoring plaster. These 120 year old houses settle and the walls get cracked.
Don. www.donwiss.com (e-mail link at home page bottom).
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| He has his own brushes. He doesn't want to use them on oil-based paint. As | I wrote, he works interior. No one around here uses oil-based paint in the | interior. And many of the houses here have unpainted woodwork. So he is | mostly restoring plaster. These 120 year old houses settle and the walls | get cracked. |
Vic Smith makes a good point. Anyone with decades of experience should know what he's doing -- in or out, acrylic or oil. Patching failing plaster is a very minor skill that most painters know. It' not a trade. It sounds like your helper is either not very bright or is a plasterer (doing new walls with blueboard) who occasionally does other odd jobs.
It's up to you if you want to use unskilled workers and try to plan the job yourself, in order to save money, but I don't see why you're representing your worker as an "old master". However many years he's been working, he's clearly not very skilled. If he were you wouldn't be here asking for advice because he would never agree to do the work according to what you were told by a bunch of wiseacres online. :) Nor would he agree to be your employee by the hour, which seems to be the arrangement.
A separate note: If you have your mind set on using junk brushes you can make that more efficient by freezing them overnight. I usually do that with any rollers or junk brushes I'm using and don't intend to clean. Oil in the freezer. Acrylic in the fridge. Acrylic rollers will last for days, at least, so that I can use just one for each wall color and keep it for the duration of a job. Oil rollers and junk brushes in the freezer will last for weeks. In both cases I just wrap them in aluminum foil or put them in a plastic bag.
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First, the last time I read CR on paint was probably 10 years ago and even then they only reviewed acrylic paint. Their assessments should be taken with a grain of salt. In order to assign ratings they cook up categories for testing somewhat willy nilly, rating products for largely irrelevant things like "ease of cleanup" or "spreadability". The main factors are coverage, settling and durability. And CR can't really test for durability.
It's a tricky issue. Oil is better for exterior, especially for horizontal surfaces like window sills. Acrylic paint simply doesn't resist moisture. Many painters will tell you acrylic is the way to go because the pressure is on to convert to water-base, and because water base is easier to work with. Probably many younger painters don't even know how to work with oil paint because they've never needed to.
Though oil is better, oil paints have been generally downgraded to meet EPA requirements and to save money. At the same time, acrylic paints have improved. But the technology simply hasn't kept up with the EPA restrictions. * There are no current paints that compare to the quality of what was available 10+ years ago. *
I still have some old Benjamin Moore oil house paint that I use for things that need to really last. For ground level trim I'm now using Cabot's oil stain. But the Cabot's is not what it used to be, and other companies are no longer making solid oil stain. (I know you're talking about gloss, but gloss this year is flat 2 years later on exterior. :)
B Moore and Sherwin Williams both have exterior oil that I've used. BM version is called DTM. (Direct to metal.) They can only sell it in quarts and apparently have to say it's for metal, but I use it on wood. I haven't seen the longterm results for either of the newer oil paints, so I'm not sure what to think. And I'm not sure if either comes in high gloss. I've only used the satin.
If you want a tough, slick, high gloss finish the best might be B Moore urethane reinforced oil. It's typically used on exterior floors, but should be OK for trim. If you can find oil base high gloss Impervo that's very good, but it's being phased out.
If you go with acrylic it won't be as tough and you can't get the same handsome sheen because it doesn't settle down as flat as oil. The film is porous. But if you prime or spot-prime first with linseed oil primer you should end up with a reasonably durable finish. (Linseed oil primer is important because it's the only type that will really soak in to the wood, which is really the main point of a primer.
Sorry to go on so long with such uncertain conclusions. It's just the state of the market. I've been doing painting commercially in my work since 1980. (I do some painting work and a lot of renovation/building work on which I also do the painting.) I used to have clear answers to questions like yours, but there just isn't a best answer anymore.
Last week I was trying to hunt down solid oil deck stain for my own deck. It's had Cabot's stain for many years. I'm not sure if I'll be able to get the Cabots. Acrylic deck stain is a bad joke, wearing away in less than one season. Urethane reinforced deck paint is good, but when it peels the scraping is hard work. Then there are new "high tech" products which may be good.... but who wants to be a guinea pig? That same dilemma also applies with exterior house paint and interior trim paint. The best options just aren't sold anymore.
If you want a really nice look I'd go with the urethane reinforced oil. If you're happy with a decent finish the acrylic will be fine and should hold up OK on vertical trim that doesn't get too much weather exposure. Just don't buy junk like Glidden or the stuff you can get at Home Depot. I've used B Moore for years. Then I switched to Pratt and Lambert, as BM has been going downhill. P&L is consistently very good, but Sherwin Williams bought them and now I can't get P&L. I'm currently using mostly Sherwin Williams, with somewhat mixed feelings. Any of those 3 brands should be good enough.
With the black color: That's a matter of taste, but personally I think there's nothing more elegant than a very glossy and very smooth black finish. If it were me I'd be happy to stick with that.
Also, a note on cleanup: If you get a decent polyester/ nylon brush and leave it soaking in thinner, then also buy a spinner to spin it dry before use, you can go for weeks or even months with the same brush. You don't need to buy lots of junky brushes and throw them out. I just keep one acrylic and one oil brush, both soaking in paint cans inside 5 gallon compound buckets. By leaving them soaking and using a spinner I never need to actually clean a brush, yet I always have a high quality brush ready to use. Just don't use bristle that way. It will quickly stiffen in the thinner bath.
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wrote:

I just retired from over 50 years of doing this crap. I'd start by giving all the black surfaces a light sanding to put some tooth on them. Then prime with an agressive oilbase primer in black or as deep a grey as possible if the current coating is OB. Otherwise, use an acrylic primer. Then I'd top coat with a black acrylic latex in semi or high gloss as desired. The EPA has pretty much regulated OB exterior paint into a real second rated product, so unless you have a burning desire to use oil I'd pass on it.
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