Ozone Generator -vs- Cat Urine Spray?

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Ozone Generator -vs- Cat Urine Spray?
I was hoping to get some advice regarding the effectiveness of a small Ozone Generator to deal with the smell of Cat Urine Spray indoors.....by a de-sexed male cat. He is deliberately spraying, not simply taking a much-needed piss. He is spraying on vertical surfaces. There is almost nothing I don't know about the "territorial behaviour issues", prevention, and cleaning. I have spoken to the local Vet in great detail. I use an arsenal of special cleaners, and a Pheromone preventative spray. I have also done a great deal of personal research. Getting rid of the cat is definitely not an option. Can you comment about Ozone Generators and their effectiveness? Bottom line: If the Cat spraying is a persistent problem, is a small Ozone Generator (with thorough cleaning) money well spent? Thanks.
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On Apr 9, 9:09?am, snipped-for-privacy@yahoo.com.au wrote:

Before you think about getting one of these, read these articles. http://www.allergyclean.com/article-whatyoushouldknowozone.htm http://healthandenergy.com/ozone_damages_health.htm http://www.airtesters.com/ionizers.cfm
Regards
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Dear shazl...:
On Apr 9, 6:09 am, snipped-for-privacy@yahoo.com.au wrote:

Who desexed him? It may have been the civic-minded thing to do, but did he go voluntarily?

If the cat were telling you what it thinks of being desexed, making it breathe ozone until dead might cure the problem. As an occasional area-wide treatment of unoccupied spaces, ozone works well. Otherwise it is hazardous to breathe, hard on most polymers (like carpet backing), and not a good idea as you intend.
Change cats. Preferably for a dog. Of course, they "mark" if male...
David A. Smith
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On Apr 9, 8:09 am, snipped-for-privacy@yahoo.com.au wrote:

You should have had your cat neutered much earlier. My vet says 4 months old is the right time. If you fail to neuter him or do it too late that is what happens.
Of course you cannot get rid of the cat. It is your responsiblity to give him a lifetime home. A cat that sprays is a big problem for which there are few good solutions. You can try the ozone generator for sure. Try everthing else you can think of as well. It will not change the cats behaviour.
The cat is mad at you. Sometimes giving the cat some quality time will change his behaviour. When you come home, immediatly pick the cat up and give lots of scratches on his head and ears. Then carry him to the bedroom and let him on your chest for a little while giving him lots of pets. If you have been using a spray bottle to keep him off the counters, stop doing that and all other negative style training.
Keeping interior doors closes will confine the cat and his undesirable activities. Something cat enthusiasts often do is give the cat his own room complete with other cats and large climbing posts and playthings he can play on. Then he stays in that room forever. Many people will put down a cat that pisses on the family belongings. You won't do it and neither will I but it is the only permanent solution.
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Yes, but as the owner of the cat, you get to decide just how long that lifetime is.

Enjoy the next 15 years of smelling cat piss and the joy you bring to the potential owners of the home when you go to sell the place.
--

Roger Shoaf

About the time I had mastered getting the toothpaste back in the tube, then
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On 9 Apr 2007 06:09:20 -0700, snipped-for-privacy@yahoo.com.au wrote:

Low voltage electrical grid on the baseboards.
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On Mon, 09 Apr 2007 14:35:09 -0500, Fred Kasner

High voltage elecrical grid on the baseboards, then....
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Goedjn wrote:

The screams will keep you awake all night long. Until he pisses on one and then is electrocuted to death. FK
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Fred Kasner wrote:

Crystals are caused by cheap food, high in Magnesium content.
Cats are carnivores and cannot digest plant material. Any food that does not list a meat as its first, chief ingredient (rice, corn, etc.), should be avoided. You can't go wrong with a national brand known for quality (Purina, Iams, Science Diet) but you can kill your kitty with store brands.
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wrote:

Most months.

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HeyBub wrote:

They were fed with ground horsemeat and some added table scraps. So much for your purported expertise. FK
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On Apr 9, 9:09 am, snipped-for-privacy@yahoo.com.au wrote:

Ozone (O3) is in the news a lot these days and has its place in the world of chemistry, but as a consumer product has pretty much been a failure. O3 is a very reactive material and can combine with many chemicals very rapidly. In your case it MIGHT react with the stink in kittys pee. The problem is that most of the 03 is used up before it ever gets to the stinky chemicals. In order to be effective you would have to use high concentrations of O3 which could damage you or the surfaces you are trying to deodorize or rarely cause health problems.
There are a couple of approaches I would take - both "natural" or biological. (O3 is "natural" but not at high concentrations.) First, there are products available, through vets I imagine, that contain enzymes that act naturally to degrade the urine and the odors that are there. Second, there are commercial cleaners that are used in public bathrooms that contain bacteria that eat urine and odors that come from urine. These bacteria are common harmless ones that are found in the environment. Both these approaches are sold by Novazyme Biologicals, and I suspect many others.
Sorry but I don't buy all the psychological approaches - but I'm a chemist not a pet psychologist. Try both, what do you have to lose but some stink.
I have 2 cats and 4 dogs. I swore if any of them developed bad habits such as you're dealing with that they would have to spend pee-time outside. We now have one inside cat and one outside cat, and it works well for all concerned. The outside guy keeps the mouse population in check and has a warm place to sleep and food to eat and goes to the vet when he needs it.
If you end up with a positive solution with O3 please let the group know. I'd like to file it away for future reference.
Good luck.
Harry
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Dear hebintn:
...

Ozone is mixed with water and sprayed on surfaces for decontamination. As long as undissolved ozone-containing gas does not exit the spray nozzle, and the dissolved ozone level is not too high (5 ppm or so), and the "area of application" is well ventillated, industry has had excellent results in surface decontamination.
None of this success will apply to an "electric room deodorizer".
David A. Smith
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Try the John Wayne Bobbitt solution - amazing what doctors can do!
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Dave,
O3 at this low concentration, 5 ppm, would be probably be totally reacted with non-target molecules such as soil molecules, fabric surfaces, or most any unsaturated molecule. Are you talking deodorization or disinfection? Doesn't matter O3 sucks at concentrations usable on soiled surfaces for the consuming public regardless of the hype you see on TV. Show me some data of O3 efficacy in real world surfaces.
Sounds like you've been around O3 projects. 8 ) Are you the Dave Smith I know that works for a large consumer product company?
Harry
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Dear hebintn:
...

Mox nix. Lysing the little fat pockets that cells breathe through takes very little longer than getting double carbon bonds.

Carpet would suck, and would no longer be recognizeable as carpet after treatment.

I had a Co-60 gamma sterilizer in El Paso, so I made ozone in air with a blue glow. Then I worked for an ozone manufacturer making ozone in air or oxygen with a purple to blue glow. Then I worked for a gas-to- liquid contacting company, and ozone came up a lot there also.

I "designed" (physics, my assistant, and my boss helped much) the cell in this ozone generator, and had much to do with the internal layout: http://www.gewater.com/pdf/cfe1003en.pdf
So probably not me.
But nice to make your aquaintance.
David A. Smith
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dlzc wrote:

Hi Dave, I have a friend who has designed some very high efficiency bubble diffusers (originally designed for O2 transfer). Since the diffusers are ceramic and can be easily fitted with ozone resistant fittings, I was wondering if you thought there would be a good market for bubble diffusers as a replacement for injectors. (>90% O2 transfer efficiency in 8' of water IIRC) They have an incredible turn down ratio. ( I can't remember the exact operating pressure ~20" water IIRC) When I worked on the diffusers, I noticed there was a lot of reluctance to try an unproven technology esp in water treatment. Some were sold for special applications and proved very effective. I know he has some ideas for improving transfer efficiency even further - but could this be a solution to a problem nobody wants to solve?
Thanks in advance for any input, Gregg
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Dear Gregg:
...

I've seen and used porous teflon membranes too...

Diffusers have been used in municipal water treatment since the early 1900s.
Turndown ratios for diffusers are on the order of 50%, which is fine for some applications. If the growing bubble is filled too slowly, it doesn't distribute over the whole surface... just on the "high spots".

There is a great lot of competition in diffusers. If you can do it without polymeric seals of any sort, you will have a leg up on the competition.
I personally *hate* diffuser systems. The diffusers are constantly requiring service, since ozone will cause iron (among other things) to go insoluble right on the diffuser. This requires a full shutdown of the process to remove / replace / refurbish. Then you have to build huge tanks for contacting. And you have to make sure the manifold is level and self-draining. And you require high flow rates, or multi-tier delivery manifolds for large gas turn-down ratios. Finally, with large exposed volumes you get very high dissolved oxygen levels, which pose serious corrosion problems in municipal systems.
I'll put my salesman's hat on for a second, even though the company I used to work for doesn't work out of Arridzona any more. Injector systems reside outside the contacting area, allowing service on components without draining (or wearing a wetsuit). Injector systems can be arranged to deliver ozone in just a few tens of feet of pipe... even for huge flow rates, and mixed to get (in most cases) better then 95% mass transfer. Injector systems can even be made to keep DO levels close to ambient saturation, so that you don't end up with air binding in filtration systems downstream.
Salesman's hat comes off...
I added 100 ppd of ozone at 12 wt% to a 350 gpm semiconductor wastewater flow stream, got about 99% mass transfer (very high instantaneous demand), and only took about 60 sq feet of floor space including contacting and destruction of excess gas.
Diffusers don't require additional power to contact. But that really is their only benefit. Sorry.
David A. Smith
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N:dlzc D:aol T:com (dlzc) wrote:

Thanks for your input Dave. It's good to hear from the other side! - Don't be sorry! It's good to here solid advice before throwing money & time down the drain. I'd like to provide a few more details about the diffuser (We made standard ceramic disc, dome & Sanitare type diffusers for municipal waste water systems - they have fairly low transfer efficiencies as do teflon membranes ( per internal O2 transfer testing in 30' water column) This is a ceramic membrane diffuser system -fine ceramic membrane coated on a large pore ceramic body which acts as a plenum. A 3/4"or 1" NPT SS fitting is used - screws right in - the diffusers are balanced for DWP - that is - they can be manufactured to very tight tolerances unlike standard diffusers. The end result is- you don't wind up with dead or low flow diffusers in the grid. (If it's plumbed correctly!!) even though they have a very flat Flow vs P curve. These membranes are also designed to prevent clogging (A long explanation is required) I talked with him last night - the diffuser can get 100% transfer in short column depths << 8ft so no ozone destruction is needed. Having said all that - There is still a hell of a lot of expensive plumbing required and maintenance would be a pain. He's not looking at selling systems - just diffusers... With the additional info - do you think there is any benefit?
Gregg
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Dear Gregg:
...

Yes, you cannot improve oxygen transfer in wastewater, and if you do succeed you get no return. There is just too much crap in the water to get more oxygen in.

How is the SS bonded to the ceramic? Aquatic Ecosystems sells a *very* inexpensive diffuser stone that lasts about a year then unbonds, blows off, and sinks to the bottom of the contact basin.

Tell this to Refractron.

You do if you reduce gas flow to 20%, as is being done now in all large municipal applications.

You cannot change chemistry. Unless you have a polymeric surface that fractures accumulation, you will still have pores getting blocked.

Pure horse manure. His dissolved oxygen level must be so low that *no* bubbles break the surface, otherwise Henry's law gets thrown out. I don't think a diffuser can change the laws of physics at the surface.
Someone just sold you a "low mileage" used car, sir. Pay no attention to the racing car numbers still faintly visible under the spray-can paint job.

In small systems, sure. Big enough for your "friend" to make a living at (or not get sued doing), probably not.
David A. Smith
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