Out of Spaces in Elec Panel for GROUND

[ThePetPage]

Hi, I have room in my Square D 40 circuit 200A panel for 4 more breakers. But I do not have any more room to put the white and the ground wires. This is because one of the larger breakers, a 90A that feeds a subpanel in the garage, has its nuetral and ground split and under multiple screws. The 2 gauge wire apparently wouldn't fit under one screw.

A) Is THAT a problem safety or code wise?

B) Do they sell a strip I can add to the box or would I be better off adding another subpanel in the basement right next to the existing main panel?

Thanks, John

[Greg]

You can buy additional grounding busses and you can also buy a lug that is big enough to properly terminate that 2 ga wire.

[Jeff Cochran]

Buy an additional ground buss, or a ground lug for the #2. Though I wouldn't fool with the larger wire if it's solidly attached.

Jeff

[John Grabowski]

The terminals on the the ground/neutral bar may be approved to accept more than one conductor under each screw. Check the panel labeling for details. You could also buy a ground bar to screw into the panel.

John Grabowski

[Minnie Bannister]

What about an additional *neutral* bus for a Cutler-Hammer box? Is such a thing available? This is for the sub-panel in the basement; the main panel with the main breaker and one breaker for the garage outlets is in the garage, so I assume that only there are the ground and neutral connnected directly.

MB

On 11/17/04 09:30 pm Greg put fingers to keyboard and launched the following message into cyberspace:

[T.H.]

Thats what I was gonna say. You can usually stuff two #12 or #14 wires in the same hole. I have also wirenutted together some of the ground wires in the old fuse boxes where there were never enough screws. Probably not the best idea, but it works in a pinch. I would tend to NOT wirenut the neutrals unless absolutely necessary, but the grounds should work just fine that way.

I once worked on a place where the former electrician stuck the neutral and ground in the same home for each circuit or piece of romex. I thought that was sort of odd,

T.H.

[Greg]

You can double, even triple up the ground wires if the panel is labelled for it but neutrals must be one per hole per code.

[someone]

In my home, the neutral and ground are in the same slot on the ground bar, by the same screw. Is that a problem then?

The home was built in 2000 and passed the electric inspection in 8/2000.

[Greg]

It's not legal now.

408.21 Grounded Conductor Terminations. Each grounded conductor shall terminate within the panelboard in an individual terminal that is not also used for another conductor. ("grounded conductors" are the neutrals)

In the grand scheme of things it is probably not the worst thing you can do but it is not code compliant as of the 2002 code. Prior to that it was just an issue of the panel listing and label.Virtually every manufacturer labelled against it but that is harder to enforce so it got it's own article. Most panels are labelled for 2 or 3 grounding wires per terminal

[ß©©ß]

In many of the older panels, especially the old fuse boxes, this is impossible. Heck, those old 4 plug fuse and 2 pullout, 60A fuse boxes had three screws for the neutrals. That's less than the fuses. I was dealing with that in a shed that had one of those old boxes, and at one point I think I had something like 4 neutrals nutted together to one screw, and a half dozen bare grounds nutted together to another screw. The 3rd screw went with a larger wire to a sub feed box. I finally just replaced the whole box.

[Greg]

Good choice