our country needs a new type of firearm for police

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if hit it would disable the person immediately, but not kill them.
perhps something combining a physical hit with a neuro toxin that causes fast paralysis.
so the suspect isnt able to hurt anyone else,
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On 9/24/2016 5:09 AM, bob haller wrote:

If you are going to be a dreamer, why don't you just dream that people behave themselves?
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On 9/24/2016 8:29 AM, Taxed and Spent wrote:

Lot of stuff has been tried and police also carry tasers but even they have killed people who had heart attacks afterwards. It is a pipe dream.
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On 9/24/16 8:09 AM, bob haller wrote:

Fast paralysis would most likely also stop the muscles that control breathing. You would have a non-zero number who would be allergic, croak, and thus cause uproars. There is a certain small number of people who die from Tazers, mostly those with unknown (at least to the cop) heart problems, high on various things (interactions with street drugs would likely be another concern of neurotoxins). Heck even just having someone hold them down can cause heart attacks or positional asphyxiation. If there was such a thing, the Defense Department would be working on it.
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I saw on a TV drama once where the police fired a "bean bag" shotgun which knocked the person down and stunned them. Not knowing, would that be something viable for any initial assault.
I'm not a LE officer but those I know who are even think that the incidence of this action is out of control.
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On 9/24/2016 10:05 AM, snipped-for-privacy@worthless.info wrote:

BS! In the Tulsa situation two different officers deployed weapons - one chose a gun the other the Taser. Not second guessing which was the correct choice, but that comment makes it seem the police are trying to kill someone rather than stopping a threat which is the intent (or should be). If the police WANTED to kill those people, the surest way would be to just ignore them and their calls for help when their neighbors turn on them.

Depends. I have a friend who was on scene commander at a barricade situation involving a looney tunes 70+ year old woman. This went on for weeks and they attempted to take her down (after she'd fired upon sheriff's deputies with a commitment order from the court) with a bean bag round. Apparently she watched the same TV drama and had wrapped and taped newspapers to her torso and extremities as a crude sort of body armor. Hit her with the bean bag in the chest and it didn't do much other than piss her off. (they eventually took her without injury)
Another one, within 6 miles of me involved a drugged out idiot who knifed a family member and was running around with a knife. He refused to stand still and cooperate and unfortunately when they fired the bean bag round he ducked rather than zag, took it in the head and was killed.
What people either forget or choose to ignore is that the streets are not a testing lab. The officer has a split second to react to the threat (real or perceived) and there normally is no time to try Plan B.

No doubt there are cases such as that. However, until all the facts are in and everything has been thoroughly analyzed the ones that you know - if they are speaking of either the Charlotte or Tulsa incident - should pour themselves a large cup of STFU and wait until the investigation is completed. It what they would want if they were in those officer's shoes. Either that or they are just idiots - Hey! It happens even in the best of departments.<g>
BTW, could the Tulsa quick charging wind up being nothing more than an effort to placate the BLM crowd? Like Baltimore? Will the charges stand? Will there be a conviction? Stay tuned.
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On 9/24/2016 8:25 AM, Unquestionably Confused wrote:

Both were the correct choice and they were used in the proper sequence. Now the question is whether they should have been used at all.
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On Saturday, September 24, 2016 at 11:25:46 AM UTC-4, Unquestionably Confused wrote:

+1
And in another recent incident, the shooting outside the convenience store in Louisiana, the police apparently first used a taser and for whatever reason, it wasn't effective. They wound up wrestling with the perp on the ground and then shooting him. The perp had a gun in his pocket. Taser's aren't perfect, they rely on a dart with a wire sticking in the perp. Faced with an imminent deadly threat, they are not the solution.

Exactly. That's why it's so difficult to convict a cop in one of these shootings. If I was on the jury, even if the cop made a mistake, I'd have a tough time finding them guilty when they have a split second to make a decision in a volatile, toxic, dangerous situation that they did not create. The perp created it.

+1

+1
That seems to be the safest route these days. Charge knowing you have no case, then let the jury acquit a year or two later, when things have cooled down. What leads one to suspect that could be the case in Tulsa is how quick the charges were brought. It's hard to imagine they did a full, fair investigation of all the evidence in that short period of time.
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Per Bob F:

And the latest one - where the wife was shooting video while telling the cops that her husband was on some sort of medication.... I can't figure out why on earth the cops, at that point, couldn't have just backed off and waited for things to settle down... it's not like the guy had a pump-action shotgun and was firing at people.
Same with a 15-year-old girl recently: they handcuffed her, got her mostly into the car and then, when she refused to pull her feet inside the door, they maced her. Geeze..... How about you just step back and tell her than you're getting paid by the hour and she can lay there until the cows come home... but sooner or later she's going to get tired of it?
They seem heavily biased or trained towards exacting total immediate submission no matter what - and escalating force until they get it.
And how about the wacko hiding in the boat after planting the Boston Marathon bombs? They had him surrounded, there was no way in the world he was going anywhere... Nobody knew how many other bombs he had planted - so it would seem like a really, really, *really* good idea to take him alive and able to talk..... Instead they poured fire into that boat for at least 20 seconds.... by some miracle, he survived and was able to be questioned but it was just that: a miracle....... My impression of that whole thing was "Keystone Cops in action".
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On 9/24/2016 9:35 PM, (PeteCresswell) wrote:

Just released information though, reveals a gun. You may want to hold off on your opinion. Video does not show him pointing it, but the gun had his fingerprints and dna on it.

Why was she arrested? I don't recall the case but it is easy to give your solution sitting at the keyboard. Don't know what was justified.

They have priorities, such as protecting their lives and others nearby. They are at risk while the perp is free to react in a negative way.
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On 25/09/2016 05:06, Ed Pawlowski wrote:

Why do selections of your police force come over to the UK to learn how our cops approach and tackle dangerous villains without guns? There are other ways.
Scots Police Teach US Cops How To Avoid Gun Use - Sky News news.sky.com/story/scots-police-teach-us-cops-how-to-avoid-gun-use-10151069 31 Jan 2016 - Sky cameras follow officers from Boston Police Department as they find out how violent offenders are tackled in the UK. ... American police chiefs have been to Scotland to learn new techniques in how to avoid shooting violent suspects ... "It's about time that we step up and this is our chance," said Mr Wexler ... ____________________________________________________________________ What can US trigger-happy cops learn from Britain's gunless police ... www.independent.co.uk › News › World › Americas 12 Jun 2015 - To join the few and the proud who police Britain's streets with a gun, first ... “I constantly remind our officers that their best weapon is their mouth,” he said. ... officers faced regular drills challenging them to find creative ways out ...
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60 minutes had a demo of a military weapon, point it at a person and they instantly get violently ill.
there are way to many cop shootings occurying.
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On 09/25/2016 08:26 AM, bob haller wrote:

Why do you want to save the lives of criminals?
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On Sunday, September 25, 2016 at 8:53:52 AM UTC-4, Hob Baller wrote:

remember innocent till proven guilty? its in our constution......
should anyone be killed by a cop for a minor infraction?
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On 9/25/2016 9:05 AM, bob haller wrote:

Arguing with the police on the street is never smart.
Get an attorney if you feel you have been wronged.
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Per bob haller:

Sounds like the "Sick Stick" portrayed in the sci-fi movie "The Minority Report".
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Per Bod:

The cynic in me would think that some would see it as one more tool with which to torture/punish people.
Doesn't mean that's going to be the case.... but that is my kneejerk reaction after seeing where things have gone with Mace and Tasers.
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On 9/24/2016 8:35 PM, (PeteCresswell) wrote:

Yeah. I agree with you!
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On 09/25/2016 04:34 AM, Muggles wrote:

Yah, just read a couple bible verses to the perp and they'd immediately confess and surrender.
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Make them eat a bacon sandwich? :-)
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