OT Yahoo breach

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On 9/26/2016 12:10 PM, James Wilkinson wrote:

POP is no more "real" than any other protocol.

Your email could be hacked even from inside your computer if you click on the right (wrong?) link. You could be hacked by a man in the middle attack. You could get your account stolen or read by social engineering. You could get your account read or stolen by a password hack. And my guess is that you employ no encryption.
There's no extra safety in POP.
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On Monday, September 26, 2016 at 4:04:17 PM UTC-4, AL wrote:

Al,
Do yourself a favor and don't try to have an intelligent conversation with JW. In fact, don't try to have *any* conversation with JW.
It's a waste of time and energy.
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The protocol is irrelevant, it's where the mail is stored.

You must have a really stupid browser if it allows a server to access your email data.

Doesn't happen. Email hacks happen to things like Yahoo where millions of people store their emails in one place, and where anyone can access it freely if they have the password. Nobody can get the emails off your computer, even with your password.

That only allows them to read any emails you've not yet downloaded.
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| | Your email could be hacked even from inside your computer if you click | on the right (wrong?) link.
That's true, but "real" email is different. First, it's not free, so there's some expectation of service. It's also stored on your computer and using POP3 exclusively with real email means your email on the server is deleted when you download it. Yes, your computer can be hacked. But freebie online services present other risks. This issue is a good example.
There's also the issue of not really owning your email. Court cases have defined your email as owned by the service. (They don't subpoena you for your email. They subpoena Yahoo, Google, Hotmail, or whatever.) You also sacrifice privacy in that most freebie webmail providers claim the right to read your email for the purpose of targetted ads. Freebie webmail is not your email, any more than freebie Facebook pages are yours to customize as you like.
As the geeks like to say, if you're not paying for the service then you're the product.
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On 9/26/2016 2:03 PM, Mayayana wrote:

What service do you get that I don't get from free Gmail?

Your email is stored on your providers server while it's waiting (hours?) for you to download it. Could be hacked then. Also your email goes through many servers during the trip to its destination. Could be hacked then.

I find server email storage a benefit. My saved emails can be accessed from any of my devices (phone, tablets, PCs, etc). Any change (reading, deleting, drafts, etc) I make on one is reflected to all.

A warrant can also be served at your house. And they will take your computer and all those locally stored emails.

Google *computers* do read my email for ad placement. Just like your ISP's computer (server) reads your email for processing. A computer reading my email doesn't bother me much...as long as there are no humans looking over its shoulder.

If you send me an email then it's owned by Google?? 8-O

That's true. But it doesn't make the service bad. Do you use encryption? Might help with the hackers. Google provides it for free... ;)
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| > That's true, but "real" email is different. First, it's not free, so | > there's some expectation of service. | | What service do you get that I don't get from free Gmail? |
If I have a problem I can contact a person. I'm paying for service. They provide email, they don't show me ads, and they don't claim the right to read my email or store my email for their own purposes. Their POP3 service is exactly that. POP3 should not leave email on the server, but Google considers your email to be as much their property as yours. They keep copies. It was revealed years ago that if you delete your email from GMail it only deletes your access to it. In other words, it's the diference between me getting a product I pay for and you getting whatever Google thinks will keep you around while providing them the most profit.
| > It's also stored on your computer and using POP3 exclusively with | > real email means your email on the server is deleted when you | > download it. | | Your email is stored on your providers server while it's waiting | (hours?) for you to download it. Could be hacked then. Also your email | goes through many servers during the trip to its destination. Could be | hacked then. | Yes. Everything's hackable. That wasn't the point. The point is that my email is mine and I can delete it from the server. You can't. (See above.)
| > Yes, your computer can be hacked. But freebie online services | > present other risks. This issue is a good example. | | I find server email storage a benefit. My saved emails can be accessed | from any of my devices (phone, tablets, PCs, etc). Any change (reading, | deleting, drafts, etc) I make on one is reflected to all. | That's one of the possible benefits of webmail. It's also one of the risks. But freebie webmail doesn't give you the choice.
| > There's also the issue of not really owning your email. Court cases | > have defined your email as owned by the service. (They don't | > subpoena you for your email. They subpoena Yahoo, Google, Hotmail, or | > whatever.) | | A warrant can also be served at your house. And they will take your | computer and all those locally stored emails. | Yes, of course. There are all sorts of situations where you could be subject to law enforcement actions. So what? You keep missing the point. *You don't own your GMail. Google does.*
https://web.archive.org/web/20060509223836/http://news.com.com/Police+blotter+Judge+orders+Gmail+disclosure/2100-1047_3-6050295.html
| > You also sacrifice privacy in that most freebie webmail providers | > claim the right to read your email for the purpose of targetted ads. | | Google *computers* do read my email for ad placement. Just like your | ISP's computer (server) reads your email for processing. A computer | reading my email doesn't bother me much...as long as there | are no humans looking over its shoulder. |
That's your choice. They claim the right to read it. I don't see any reason to trust them. It's like coming home to find a man in my house and he says, "Oh, don't worry. I'm just a salesman. I only broke in to see how you live so I can sell you stuff." Call me crazy, but I just can't see trusting the word or integrity of that man.
You've expressed that you like GMail and don't have any problem with anything they do. Presumably you think it's a good deal to trade your rights to save the price of a cup of coffee. That's up to you. You asked what was different between freebie webmail and real email. I explained it. For some of us the difference matters. Personally I have my domain email auto-delete junk webmail and don't correspond any more than necessary with friends and family who use it. I haven't agreed to let Googlites or Yahooans read and store my personal correspondence.
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On Mon, 26 Sep 2016 23:09:30 -0400, "Mayayana"

Larry Ellison said if you are not paying for the product, you are the product.
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On 9/26/2016 8:09 PM, Mayayana wrote:

Free Gmail has no live person to contact, that's true. But there is ample online help. Do you have such problems with your service that you need a live person?

Gmail's POP service leaves email on the server because it has to synchronize with other devices that use protocols that need that email on the server.

I stick with Gmail because I get good service. Such as having Two-step verification for better security. Does your provider have it?

"You have control over your data. We provide you with tools to delete and export your data so that you can take your data with you at any time, use external services in conjunction with Google Apps, or stop using our services altogether."
https://support.google.com/work/answer/6056650?hl=en

Oh my. A bit paranoid I see... 8-O
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"AL" wrote
| > *You don't own your GMail. Google does.* | | "You have control over your data. We provide you with tools to delete | and export your data so that you can take your data with you at any | time, use external services in conjunction with Google Apps, or stop | using our services altogether." | | https://support.google.com/work/answer/6056650?hl=en |
Yes. They lie. Apparently you didn't read the link that you've removed from your response. (Nor did you fully read my explanation about "deleting" Google email.) Google also lied about collecting wifi data from houses with their streetview cars. Google is no longer a brilliant search engine run by two cute kids. It's a publicly traded advertising company, run by a man who's publicly stated that if you think you need privacy then maybe you're doing something you shouldn't be doing. It's also, by far, the most widespread spyware operation on the Internet, with ads, fonts, analytics, or other Google links on nearly every commercial website.
| > Personally I have my domain email auto-delete junk webmail and don't | > correspond any more than necessary with friends and family who use | > it. I haven't agreed to let Googlites or Yahooans read and store my | > personal correspondence. | | Oh my. A bit paranoid I see...
It's not a matter of paranoia. It's a sense of common decency. People using freebie webmail have allowed commercial companies to own their private correspondence, in exchange for convenience, and/or because they don't understand how to set up email on their computer and/or to save a few cents. I consider that to be a bad precedent socially. Commercial companies shouldn't own the resources of the citizenry. Worse, the webmail users' laziness means that I unwillingly share my correspondence with the same companies.
You see paranoia because you don't understand why anyone would value anything above convenience. You don't think of yourself as a citizen. You're a "consumer". Maybe you'd be happy to have Alka Seltzer ads on your car if the company would give you a coupon for a free cup of coffee? I find that undignified, as well as being an inappropriate commercialization of the public sphere. If you don't understand that view then I'm not sure I could explain it.
There's also a separate issue here that's worth noting, which has nothing to do with the argument over freebie webmail: Very popular services can be more risky. Adobe Flash, Adobe Acrobat Reader browser plugin, freebie webmail, Skype, Wordpress websites.... Anything used by a large percentage of people is an attractive target. Flash gets targetted because it's buggy, but also because it's ubiquitous. Wordpress sites get hacked because there are lots of them and the bugs in Wordpress tools have been many. So the payoff for hacking them can be big. Yahoo email is a similar case. It's a very big target. So it's a good idea to avoid the popular brand when possible.
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On 9/27/2016 6:32 AM, Mayayana wrote:

I dunno. Telling family and friends not to email you because you're scared of what the big bad Google might do to your computer sounds a bit paranoid to me.

I am that.

No. But I do like saving money and coupons help.

I should hide my face while I save money?

That's quite a list. No paranoia though, huh... ;)
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| > Very popular services can | > be more risky. Adobe Flash, Adobe Acrobat Reader | > browser plugin, freebie webmail, Skype, Wordpress | > websites.... Anything used by a large percentage of | > people is an attractive target. Flash gets targetted | > because it's buggy, but also because it's ubiquitous. | > Wordpress sites get hacked because there are lots | > of them and the bugs in Wordpress tools have been | > many. So the payoff for hacking them can be big. | > Yahoo email is a similar case. It's a very big target. | > So it's a good idea to avoid the popular brand when | > possible. | | That's quite a list. No paranoia though, huh... ;) |
Those are the most common attack "vectors". If I remember correctly, Flash is currently #1. Wordpress is preferred for driveby installing malware because Wordpress sites are often easy to compromise. (I get hackers several times a day at my own site. They try various GET requests that they know might be vulnerable, like wp-login.php, /wp-admin/..., wp/content/..., etc. They just travel the Web doing that, looking for unlocked doors.
I saw an apropos article in the NYT today. It seems Yahoo has had a number of serious security breaches under Marissa Mayer. She didn't want to risk that more people might leave the email service due to inconvenient security measures. And measures like encryption that would prevent even Yahoo from reading your email would have thwarted their targetted ad spyware. So they were hacked repeatedly. The pro-Mayer crowd called the security people the Paranoids. Eventually most of the Paranoids were hired away by other companies.
Paranoid and tinfoil hat namecalling is almost always "the first refuge of the ostrich".
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on 9/29/2016, Mayayana supposed :

A little paranoia is good securitywise but too much is bad for user experience. It's hard to know where to draw the line. I can't argue against your choices for your experience, but they are just a tad too much for mine. Only a tad though, and a very small tad at that, maybe only half a tad. :)
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Tue, 27 Sep 2016 03:09:30 GMT in alt.home.repair, wrote:

Uhh. No, contrary to some movies, not everything is 'hackable' in the gaining unauthorized access in the digital world sense. You can delete it from your server, but, depending on the server software you're using, you might just be marking a spot on an index/table that tells the software this is free space now and it can hold xxx bytes worth of data, store something else there if it's within the range. Until that happens, the 'contents' of your deleted email can most likely, be recovered.

Encryption can prevent the snooping concerns you have. Google has many a computer, but, I presently know of nothing that can 'crack' properly implemented, PGP for example. If you do, feel free to share.

Hmm...So, you aren't running your own server? You're using a 3rd party? if true, you only have their 'word' that nothing is snooping on you. Blind trust, much?
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Hmmm. I most certainly don't understand how I can access a copy of a
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27 Sep 2016 01:59:05 GMT in alt.home.repair, wrote:

Er, No.. it doesn't. it's not like usenet. For example, I have an email server package running on equipment sitting a few feet from where I am. Any emails sent to it will be delivered right to it. Likewise, if I want to send you something, my server is going to chat directly with your email provider and drop it off in your mailbox. It doesn't work like the post office, or, usenet for that matter. Due to the nature of the protocols in use and the fact it has to 'ride the net', it's still possible for man in the middle attacks of various kinds, but, we aren't discussing that aspect.
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Hmmm. I most certainly don't understand how I can access a copy of a
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On 9/27/2016 2:26 AM, Diesel wrote:

Sender > SMPT server > DNS server > Internet-*many servers* depending on the route > Domain > MTA server >User Account > Recipient
http://www.howtogeek.com/56002/htg-explains-how-does-email-work/

If we both had the same provider perhaps 'chat directly' might apply. Otherwise it'll have to take the multi-server trip like everyone else.

'ride the net' involves multi-servers.

A man in the middle attack (hack) is exactly what I mean. Anybody along the way could hack his email. Gosh now he's gonna really be paranoid...
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27 Sep 2016 23:10:51 GMT in alt.home.repair, wrote:

You seem to be confused on the roles they play. DNS server doesn't get your email, doesn't forward your email to anyplace. Doesn't even know you plan to send an email and could care less. And your email isn't going to 'many servers' in route to the destination, either. MTA server is the destination server which will get a copy of the email, as that's the intent in the first place. It'll place the email into the proper user mailbox because, it's the server that has your mailbox in the first place.
And it's like this actually: SMTP asks DNS for IP address to the server you're using to send the email (so that it can login and send the email to the sending server aka, MTA) From there, the sending server asks the DNS server for the IP address to the destination server or MTA. Once the sending server or MTA has that information, it attempts to contact the destination server or MTA and deliver the email to it. The destination server or MTA then places the email into your mailbox, vs others present on it. Your email isn't being passed to the DNS server in the process, either. The DNS server isn't forwarding your email along, anywhere. It's providing both servers the IP address so that they can exchange a friendly greeting and then send/accept the email and place it into the proper mailbox for you to retrieve it.
The DNS server is for your convenience so we can use something easy to remember, like gmail.com instead of 74.125.21.83 which is the IP address for gmail.com. Your client (your email client) has no idea what gmail.com is, and, could care less. It's interested in an IP address to contact. It also needs to know the IP address to the server you're using to send from, as again, it cannot do anything with yahoo.com or gmail.com, etc. It needs an IP address. Which is where the DNS server comes into play. Your email is exchanged between the SMTP (your client) to the sending server and then the sending server asks DNS for the IP to the destination server and passes your email off to it, if possible.
So, your email goes from your client to your server then to my server. That's how it works. That's what the article in the url you provided told you, but, you didn't understand what you were reading based on your reply.
DNS allows domains to exist, without having to memorize individual IP addresses. It's for human convenience and that's all. Contrary to what you think, when you type a domain name into your web browser or email client, your browser and email client can't use it to do anything more than request help from a DNS server to give them the IP address to the domain you're attempting to contact. They don't know (or care) what a 'domain' is.
Depending on the server configuration on either end, it may accept the email even if the address isn't valid. IE: no such user actually exists on it. In that case, it's being stored for Adminstrator review or just deleted, outright.
Your email goes from my server to gmail, once the IP address is provided by the DNS server. Your email is not being bounced around other 'servers' in route.

Re-read your own url. You'll find it matches what I just told you above. I've also included links explaining what you think are all seperate 'servers' getting a copy of the email in route. They aren't.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mail_transfer_agent
Within Internet message handling services (MHS), a message transfer agent[1] or mail transfer agent[2] (MTA) or mail relay is software that transfers electronic mail messages from one computer to another using a client/server application architecture. An MTA implements both the client (sending) and server (receiving) portions of the Simple Mail Transfer Protocol.[3]
The terms mail server, mail exchanger, and MX host may also refer to a computer performing the MTA function. The Domain Name System (DNS) associates a mail server to a domain with an MX record containing the domain name of the host(s) providing MTA services.
A mail server is a computer that serves as an electronic post office for email. Mail exchanged across networks is passed between mail servers that run specially designed software. This software is built around agreed-upon, standardized protocols for handling mail messages and any data files (such as images, multimedia or documents) that might be attached to them.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Domain_Name_System
The Domain Name System (DNS) is a hierarchical decentralized naming system for computers, services, or any resource connected to the Internet or a private network. It associates various information with domain names assigned to each of the participating entities. Most prominently, it translates more readily memorized domain names to the numerical IP addresses needed for the purpose of locating and identifying computer services and devices with the underlying network protocols. By providing a worldwide, distributed directory service, the Domain Name System is an essential component of the functionality of the Internet.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mx_record
A mail exchanger record (MX record) is a type of resource record in the Domain Name System that specifies a mail server responsible for accepting email messages on behalf of a recipient's domain, and a preference value used to prioritize mail delivery if multiple mail servers are available. The set of MX records of a domain name specifies how email should be routed with the Simple Mail Transfer Protocol (SMTP).
Btw, MX records are NOT required to send the email. My server will attempt to send it to the IP address the DNS server provided it if no such MX record exists for it. Otherwise, it'll use the MX record specified by the DNS server; because your domain might have a seperate IP address for the email server vs one it's using for the web server that's hosting your site.
Either way, it just wants an IP address to establish contact with. If the server is unreachable, my server will attempt to send it again several more times, later. If my server is told that no such email address exists on the target email server, it won't attempt to re-send it later as it knows it can't possibly ever deliver it to the address I specified.
OTH, if the destination server reached by the IP address the DNS server provided it does accept the email, it delivers it to that server, NOT the DNS server.
It's upto the destination server or MTA to place it into YOUR mailbox vs someone elses mailbox on the destination server. And, depending on the server setup, it may accept any incoming emails even if the address isn't valid. In that case, the email isn't sitting in a normal 'mailbox', it's either been deleted when my email server signs off or is in que for administrator review.

You're a perfect example of what I was discussing with Trader_4 concerning peers. You were provided information in the url you posted, yet, didn't understand it and formed an incorrect opinion based on your misunderstanding the contents of the article. A prime demonstration of why the general public isn't capable of making correct decisions based on the information provided if they know nothing about it.
In your case, it's even worse. You actually do think you know what you're writing about, but, you clearly do not.
You thought DNS, etc were all getting copies of your email AND passing it along to the next 'server' in the chain. Which is NOT how it works.

Not in the sense you think, it doesn't. In fact, if I specify an IP address instead of the domain name, it's not involving the DNS server at all. It's going to establish contact directly with the IP address I specified and attempt to deliver the email to the server at that IP address, if one answers on the standard port.

Anybody along what way? The email isn't provided to the DNS server. The MTA server is the destination. It transfers the email it got from my server to YOUR mailbox (if possible) vs someone elses mailbox on it.
Your email is transferred in plain text, of course, so I could snoop on it as it leaves and the adminstrator(s) of the destination email server (aka, MTA) can pull it up anytime they like while their server waits for you to login and retrieve it. If you're concerned about that, encryption is your friend.
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On 9/27/2016 6:50 PM, Diesel wrote:

A DNS server can be hacked.
"How Hackers Can Hijack Your Website And Read Your Email, Without Hacking Your Company...the attackers are also posting screenshots of private emails sent to your company on Twitter...they can do that by meddling with your Domain Name System (DNS) records...attackers were able to compromise Malaysian registrar Webnic.cc, that looks after the DNS entries Lenovo.com and some 600,000 other websites...By altering the DNS entries for Lenovo, the hackers were able to redirect web traffic trying to visit Lenovo.com to a web server under their control...the Lizard Squad hackers were now able to receive emails sent to Lenovo.com,"
http://www.tripwire.com/state-of-security/security-data-protection/how-hackers-can-hijack-your-website-and-read-your-email-without-hacking-your-company/

Depends on the route.
"Internet backbones are the largest data connections on the Internet. They require high-speed bandwidth connections and high-performance *SERVERS* /routers."
https://www.techopedia.com/definition/20115/internet-backbone
> in route to the destination, either.
hacking can occur en route.
"How to Hack the Backbone of the Internet" http://motherboard.vice.com/blog/how-to-hack-the-backbone-of-the-internet
"The internet backbone — the infrastructure of networks upon which internet traffic travels — went from being a passive infrastructure for communication to an active weapon for attacks...In this case, packet injection is used for “man-on-the-side” attacks" https://www.wired.com/2013/11/this-is-how-the-internet-backbone-has-been-turned-into-a-weapon/

SMPT can be hacked.
"How to Extract Email Addresses from an SMTP Server" http://null-byte.wonderhowto.com/how-to/hack-like-pro-extract-email-addresses-from-smtp-server-0160814/

Maybe if we were hooked by a direct wire. Otherwise depending on the route there's likely many routers/SERVERS in between.

Doesn't have to be. See DNS hack above.

And available to ISP personnel for their hacking enjoyment?

I'm not the paranoid one. And the chances of any of the above happening to me or the paranoid one are nil IMO. But I don't think I can convince him.
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28 Sep 2016 04:47:12 GMT in alt.home.repair, wrote:

Yes, that's entirely possible. you could 'reconfigure' the DNS server to fork an entirely different IP address than the one of the real destination server and setup a honeypot to capture incoming emails; you'd have to be sure you told your email server not to deny any incoming emails because the mailbox doesn't actually exist though. Easily done using for example, Mail enable. If that's something you want to do.
None of that has anything to do with what I was originally writing about though. The DNS server itself still isn't getting a copy of your email. As that's not what it's for.
As your computer really doesn't know what to do with a domain name (not to be confused with a local area network domain controller; entirely different beastie); that's for your comfort, it just wants an IP address. Domain names are far easier to remember than a pile of IP addresses.

Email isn't setup like usenet or irc for that matter. Please, do yourself a favor, re-read your own url and the ones I took the time to provide you in my previous reply. It's a much more 'direct' path.
Yes, you could 'hack' a DNS server and redirect queries for specific domain names to an IP of your choosing, but, that isn't what we're discussing. You're under the misconception that your email travels through many servers before reaching the intended one. And, that's not the case.
If you didn't specify a domain, but an IP address instead, It'll attempt to contact the IP you provided instead. Even if the DNS server you're using is compromised, providing an IP instead of a domain name negates it, as it's not going to be queried.

Only if we're using domains and trusting DNS servers that could be compromised. If we're using hard coded WAN side IP addresses, then, not so much, no. That would require ISP or better level 'hacking' of sorts. Most likely, an inside job. OR! Duping you into doing something stupid and compromising your own machine by configuring it to use a specific DNS server so you can control the IP address it returns when queried. Note, I said, a specific DNS server. And it would still have to be queried to provide the rogue IP address. If you don't use the domain name, the compromised DNS server plays no part.

It's SMTP, but, I digress.

A router isn't a 'server'; Although it may have a server package of sorts on board for local/remote administration, etc. They have a tiny web server for this purpose, built in. It could also have a telnet server, if you prefer configuration via console. Some have both. :)
You seem to be grasping at straws here. A rogue router could do malicious things, certainly. You're being overly paranoid at this stage, though. And, still showing that you really don't understand how an email you send gets to it's destination. What's worse, you've demonstrated that you don't understand most/any? of the material being discussed at the urls you provided originally or in your follow up post...
At the same time though, you are making a very good example of why I think the general public isn't qualified on their own merits to determine my fate in a trial involving hacking. YOU don't understand WTF you're writing about.

Apples and oranges to be blunt.
I know a considerable amount about this; rogue software, deception, etc. Malwarebytes paid me well for my knowledge and expertise on the subject.
Even if you did compromise a top level DNS server for awhile , You haven't gained control of all of them. What's worse, if the DNS server I use already has an IP address for a domain I want to contact, it's not going to ask the top level DNS server you hacked anything. It'll only ask DNS servers higher up the food chain until it reaches one that's familiar with the domain I'm asking about and gets an IP from it and again, lemme stress, this only happens if it doesn't already have a record of that domain.
From the second url I shared with you, previously, that, you didn't read...much?
Address resolution mechanism
Domain name resolvers determine the domain name servers responsible for the domain name in question by a sequence of queries starting with the right-most (top-level) domain label. A DNS recursor consults three name servers to resolve the address www.wikipedia.org.
For proper operation of its domain name resolver, a network host is configured with an initial cache (hints) of the known addresses of the root name servers. The hints are updated periodically by an administrator by retrieving a dataset from a reliable source.
Assuming the resolver has no cached records to accelerate the process, the resolution process starts with a query to one of the root servers. In typical operation, the root servers do not answer directly, but respond with a referral to more authoritative servers, e.g., a query for "www.wikipedia.org" is referred to the org servers. The resolver now queries the servers referred to, and iteratively repeat this process until it receives an authoritative answer. The diagram illustrates this process for the host www.wikipedia.org.
This mechanism would place a large traffic burden on the root servers, if every resolution on the Internet would require starting at the root. In practice caching is used in DNS servers to off-load the root servers, and as a result, root name servers actually are involved in only a fraction of all requests.
And people would notice something is seriously wrong. Lots of people. As they did with the lizard squad hack you mentioned. it didn't take them long to figure out some bullshit was going on with a DNS server and a bogus web site. Didn't take a rocket scientist to isolate the compromised DNS server, either. It was obvious.

Your ISP can technically see everything your box is doing that isn't encrypted, yes. That's always been the case as they are your link to the internet and they have an upstream beyond them as well that can also see what your machine has been doing as well as everyone else machines that use that particular ISP.
If you're using encryption, they can only see that you reached out to so and so server at such and such IP, but, they cannot view the contents of what you exchanged with that particular server.
What your alluding to is a form of a man in the middle attack. I don't disagree with that. I disagree with the idea that you think your email is traveling all sorts of different places before it reaches it's 'final destination' as that isn't so.
It's not difficult for the administrator of the email server you use/correspond with to spy on you, if they want. I can pull up the contents of ANY of the users mailboxes on mine, with ease. I don't as a rule, but I can.
It's more like the BBS days, actually. It's the SysOps equipment and he/she has access to your message posts, and 'private' emails sent to other users on the board. It's why my boards would inform people that nothing they do on my system should be considered private as I do have full access to any/all information exchanges. If you're using encryption, obviously I can't 'read' what you wrote (assuming you used something 'real' vs some crack pot home brew garbage that I can crack), but I know you wrote something and I know who you wrote it to.
Your ISP is no different in that respect. Nor is the owner of the email server you use or the owner of the email server you sent the email to. It's best to assume that unless your comms are encrypted with a solid cypher, either end administration can read them at will.

The chances are extremely remote as long as you follow safer hex practices, yes. None of this has anything to do with your original suggestion that many servers are getting copies of your email, though. That's not how it works.
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On 9/28/2016 4:28 AM, Diesel wrote:

Glad you agree.

True. But hacking a DNS server to get an email has the same end result.

You didn't read my links with examples of en route hacks?

Attacking typos now? That's a sign of having a weak argument.

My links showed the Internet is composed of many SERVERS/routers.

My links showed how various agencies have hacked these SERVERS/routers.

Personal attacks now? That's a sign of having a weak argument.

Whoa. You've been arrested for hacking??

Profanity now? That's a sign of having a weak argument.

We can claim to be anything we want to be on Usenet.

"When you send an e-mail to someone, the message breaks up into packets that travel across the network. Different packets from the same message don't have to follow the same path. That's part of what makes the Internet so robust and fast. Packets will travel from one machine to another until they reach their destination."
http://computer.howstuffworks.com/ip-convergence2.htm
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On Wednesday, September 28, 2016 at 1:56:30 PM UTC-4, AL wrote:

..snip...

Please tell us what "machines" they are referring to in that article.
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