OT: Would you report this "illegal"l request?

[DerbyDad03]

Possibly a hypothetical situation, possibly not...

Bob, Mary and Karen work for a firm that provides care for clients with a certain type of disability. Each client has a "Care Plan" in their file which is accessible to all care providers that work at the facility. The facility is state funded and all the HIPPA rules apply.

Bob gets fired because of poor performance.

A week after being let go, Bob leaves Mary a voice mail asking her to make a copy of a specific client's Care Plan and bring it to him that evening. No reason is given, just a "Do me a favor..." request.

Mary tells Karen about the voice mail and says that she is not going to do it, but is not sure if she should report the request to their boss, the one who fired Bob.

If you were Mary, would you report the request or ignore it?

If you were Karen, would you tell Mary that if she doesn't report it, you will have to because now that you know about it, you don't want it to come back and bite you later for knowing about it but not reporting it?

[Evan]

Definitely not enough information provided here:

HIPPA requires employees to have a "need to know" information about specific "clients" or "patients" records...

If none of the three employees work directly caring for the specific "client" than none of them have a need to know and it would violate HIPPA regulations for them even as an employee to access those records...

A former employee has no legitimate right to access such records at all...

Reporting the request by Bob is required...

The agency would be mandated to refresh everyone's memories about HIPPA procedures and record keeping policies and do a self-audit...

~~ Evan

[Harvey Specter]

certain type of disability. Each client has a "Care

facility. The facility is state funded and all the

copy of a specific client's Care Plan and bring it to

but is not sure if she should report the request to

have to because now that you know about it, you

Mary need only forward the voice mail to her boss. No other action is required on her part. If Karen has not actually heard the voice mail, then Bob's alleged request is just hearsay/office gossip and it would be slanderous to spread the gossip further.

[zxcvbob]

If I were Mary, I might report it, I don't know. If I were Karen, I would mind my own business and pass along unsubstantiated 2nd-hand information.

-Bob (no relation)

[Steve Barker]

yes and yes.

[clare]

Who knows - perhaps Bob was wrongfully fired - accused of not following the care plan (poor performance), and he needs a copy to prepair his wrongfull dismissal case??

[DerbyDad03]

Twere that true, he should (IMO) pursue other means of obtaining a copy than asking a co-worker to illegally (IMO) copy a file and bring it to him.

[DerbyDad03]

All three employees had "need to know" status regarding the client and the Care Plan.

As J.K. Simmons (aka "Professor Burke") says in the Farmers Insurance commercials, "Well, yeah."

Cite? Would something like that be covered in a HIPPA training session?

"And remember, class, if any person without a need to know asks for records of an individual you must report the request."

Who is required to report the request? Just the person that received the request or also the person who was told by the person that received the request that the request was received?

[83LowRider]

It seems you just answered your own question(s). You know he isn't 'entitled' to see the file. Giving it to him would make her complicit in what you see as an illegal activity. Tell him no or tell the the boss before it involves more than him and her.

[Gordon Shumway]

You do it and I'll take 50% to keep quiet.

[Kurt Ullman]

In article

Especially since under HIPAA (one P and two As if anyone is interested) there is no requirement that anyone to report an attempted breach. It has been awhile since I had to deal with this, but I don't think there is any kind of reporting requirement if I know of a breach. However, my memory is fuzzy.

[Kurt Ullman]

Under the law that is still grossly illegal and makes the person disclosing it (at least under the terms of law) subject to BIG fines and even jail time. He could probably subpoena it if needed.

[Ed Pawlowski]

First, I'd not do it. Second, Bob is an idiot to leave a voice mail like that. It leaves him open to all sorts of things, like prosecution. Mary should not have told Karen either. Her choice is to either ignore it or report it, not to gossip about it.

Third, I'm not up on all the HIPPA requirements. AFAIK, the information is confidential and anyone giving out the information can (and should) be disciplined.

Not knowing any background on this I can't say for sure if I'd report it. I certainly would not leave myself open to conspiracy or any other illegal aspects. Unless is is a requirement under some law/policy I'm not aware of, reporting may not happen, but I'd certainly tell Bob not to call any more.

There is another possibility here. If the care plan is not correct, not sufficient, or harmful to the patient, perhaps it should be exposed to the proper authorities. Could that be Bob's motivation?

Still another possibility, Bob wants to start his own business and wants to copy the care plans. If so, he should have done so beforehand on his own and not involved others in a possibly unethical maneuver. In any case, Bob is wrong.

[Steve B]

Mary is already complicit by not reporting Bob's request to violate HIPPA rules. And by involving Karen. Karen is now complicit if she does not turn in Mary. If she says nothing, and the whole event just dies, that's one thing. If the thing sees the light of day, Mary and Karen will both be fired.

A friend who asks you to involve your employer in an illegal act is not a friend. A friend who asks another friend to conceal illegal activity is no friend either. Karen is now in the best position, because if she reports it, chances are she's the one who will most likely keep her job, depending on how much time has passed.

Steve

[Norminn]

Fired for "poor performance"? Says who? Employers do not disclose the reasons for termination of an employee, so...is that Bob's story, or did someone access his personnel file to determine why he was fired? For a terminated employee to request the record of a particular client suggests there could have been something very disagreeable done to that client by Bob.

Care plan's tend to be very generic, but would contain privileged info about client's condition, progress, etc. Does Bob want to know about other providers so he can again have contact with the client, as in "stalking"?

Bob asked Mary to commit a federal crime....it is illegal to even access a record, even if one is a legit employee, without "need to know".

I've mentioned improper acts to bosses a few times...once, an exec who had been terminated (which I was not supposed to know) came into the bldg. after hours and started carrying out boxes of stuff. I called his boss, a VP, at home. Said VP showed up about three minutes later, thanked me for the call.

Another was a pharmacist who put a new label on an outdated bag of IV antibiotic....night shift, called my supv. Said pharm. shortly left employ, went to work at drug store, and not long later did prison time for diverting narcotics.

I once worked with a guy, in HR, who had been shot in the head by a disgruntled former employee. When I started typing this, I was thinking I would not report the request. Now I'm thinking, I don't know how mad Bob is or his reason for the request, but I and the client might be much better off if the request is reported.

[Kurt Ullman]

There is nothing in HIPAA that requires reporting by individuals. It is generally up to the institution to safeguard the privacy. There MIGHT be a company policy addressing this, but I haven't heard of one.

>

[DerbyDad03]

My question was "What would *you* do?"

I already know what I would if I were either the parties involved.

[DerbyDad03]

It was well known by his co-workers that Bob's performance was sub-par.

It was well known that Bob's responsibilities were slowly being pared back because he was wasn't performing them well.

It was well known that Bob had not been happy with the performance evaluations he had been given in the past; he was vocal in these regard.

It was well known that Bob went over his direct supervisor's head claiming that his direct supervisor "had it out for him". Bob was also vocal in this regard.

It was shortly after the "going over the head" incident that Bob was let go.

Does it say "for poor performance" in his file? That I can't say for sure. Could it have been for bad-mouthing his supervisor in an unprofessional manner? That I can't say for sure.

Whatever the official reason was, Bob was a poor performer so letting him go was justified.

Whatever the official reason was really has no bearing on my question of "What would you do?" if someone made this request of you or if you were told about the request by the receiver.

[trader4]

While I agree the official reason has no bearing on what to do, for me, the additional information above, does. Sounds like Bob was a lousy worker, a trouble maker, and we already know he's not very smart for leaving the illegal request on a voicemail.

Hence, given all that I know, if I were Mary I would report the request to the boss. This guy sounds unpredictable and who knows where this could lead, meaning the boss could find out eventually through some other means. If I were Karen, I would not do anything, because she was not directly involved, didn't hear the voicemail, etc.

[Norminn]

What actually made up my mind was the possibility of Bob acting against either the employer or the client....at best, it was just plain stupid for Bob to make a request for privileged information. Folks who are fired, whether for the right or the wrong reasons, too often go postal. It also sounds like management didn't do very well....if he was a poor performer for so long, he should have been counseled or let go. Interesting situation :o)