OT: Would you report this "illegal"l request?

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Possibly a hypothetical situation, possibly not...
Bob, Mary and Karen work for a firm that provides care for clients with a certain type of disability. Each client has a "Care Plan" in their file which is accessible to all care providers that work at the facility. The facility is state funded and all the HIPPA rules apply.
Bob gets fired because of poor performance.
A week after being let go, Bob leaves Mary a voice mail asking her to make a copy of a specific client's Care Plan and bring it to him that evening. No reason is given, just a "Do me a favor..." request.
Mary tells Karen about the voice mail and says that she is not going to do it, but is not sure if she should report the request to their boss, the one who fired Bob.
If you were Mary, would you report the request or ignore it?
If you were Karen, would you tell Mary that if she doesn't report it, you will have to because now that you know about it, you don't want it to come back and bite you later for knowing about it but not reporting it?
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Definitely not enough information provided here:
HIPPA requires employees to have a "need to know" information about specific "clients" or "patients" records...
If none of the three employees work directly caring for the specific "client" than none of them have a need to know and it would violate HIPPA regulations for them even as an employee to access those records...
A former employee has no legitimate right to access such records at all...
Reporting the request by Bob is required...
The agency would be mandated to refresh everyone's memories about HIPPA procedures and record keeping policies and do a self-audit... ~~ Evan
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On 08/26/11 6:26 PM, Evan wrote:

All three employees had "need to know" status regarding the client and the Care Plan.

As J.K. Simmons (aka "Professor Burke") says in the Farmers Insurance commercials, "Well, yeah."

Cite? Would something like that be covered in a HIPPA training session?
"And remember, class, if any person without a need to know asks for records of an individual you must report the request."
Who is required to report the request? Just the person that received the request or also the person who was told by the person that received the request that the request was received?

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My read? Bob has asked someone to commit a crime - accessing records he no longer has a right to receive (except by legal subpoena should he sue). She needs to report it in case he gets access to those records some other way and she gets blamed for it. It's a CYA thing.
Bob, although possibly wronged by his bosses is asking his co-worker Mary to be fired, too. She shouldn't have told Karen - but once she did, she exposed herself even though she passed no records. Still, IMHO it's a no-brainer. If Bob asks a co-worker to steal for him, he's the SOB - plain and clear. Anything that happens to him after that is Bob's fault. (-: Karen's right to cover both her ass and Mary's. It sounds harsh but he ensnared them. His foul, his penalty.
If I were Bob, I would ask that they make personal copies for their own files (but not to give to him). That way, no records pass, and if something different appears in court via subpoena they would know whether their bosses were lying, forging SOB's or that Bob was a bad worker. They could then decide whether to help Bob by revealing the forgery. I expect that won't be the issue, though.
Like many others, he could be caught up in NY's crackdown on abuse by caregivers. NY state has been forced by a series of NY Times article to review and remove workers that are unqualified to work with seriously developmentally developed kids, some who have died:
<http://www.nytimes.com/2011/08/18/nyregion/ny-moves-to-crack-down-on-abuse - of-developmentally-disabled.html>
If Bob doesn't care about getting his co-worker in a jackpot, I wonder what else he's done that's of dubious moral fiber?
-- Bobby G.
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Their having personal copies is likely to be a violation under HIPAA, though. They may have a legitimate reason to access, but not to keep copies. Besides if they did do this, it would then be THEIR responsibility to safeguard the information and that puts them in all sorts of legal jeopardy. Finally, how do they let anybody know about the forgery without disclosing they had it? This wouldn't be one of the self-disclosing options in the law. If I was an employer I would toss someone out the door substantially quicker if I found them copying files that they did not have a legitimate reason to do.

--
People thought cybersex was a safe alternative,
until patients started presenting with sexually
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wrote:

I guess it all depends. If a coworker had been canned over the document AND I thought I might be next AND I had legitimate access to it, I might want to cover my ass even though I could get into later trouble for it.

Yeah, I guess you're right. But I'd still copy them if I thought they were going to be used to hang *me* after they finished with Bob. Especially if I thought they stood a good chance of being modified by the time a subpoena got issued. I would say the number one truism about litigation is that very few people can resist trying to bolster their case and that many, by doing so, end up being their own worst enemy. Ask Bill Clinton. Or Dick Nixon.
There must be a management school where they teach managers to add defamatory information (in smearable ink) to litigant's performance evaluations. Most times, they are not even good forgeries. The sheet often reads:
Bob is an excellent employee. He is a responsible clear thinker.
(And then, in a slightly different color ink that's not as dry as the other parts of the form):
He is often late and rude to his co-workers. He is on probation.
There was a reason Sandy Berger was stealing documents from the Archives. It's the same reason that lots of documents disappear. They made someone look bad. It's a time-honored legal tradition! (-:
-- Bobby G.
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have legitimate access to it for the purpose of copying it for personal files. There is no reason a paper copy should exist outside of the chart, if that is the way they do things.
--
People thought cybersex was a safe alternative,
until patients started presenting with sexually
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Mary need only forward the voice mail to her boss. No other action is required on her part. If Karen has not actually heard the voice mail, then Bob's alleged request is just hearsay/office gossip and it would be slanderous to spread the gossip further.
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DerbyDad03 wrote:

If I were Mary, I might report it, I don't know. If I were Karen, I would mind my own business and pass along unsubstantiated 2nd-hand information.
-Bob (no relation)
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On 8/26/2011 4:59 PM, DerbyDad03 wrote:

yes and yes.
--
Steve Barker
remove the "not" from my address to email
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On Fri, 26 Aug 2011 16:37:01 -0700, Smitty Two

following the care plan (poor performance), and he needs a copy to prepair his wrongfull dismissal case??
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On 08/26/11 8:32 PM, snipped-for-privacy@snyder.on.ca wrote:

Twere that true, he should (IMO) pursue other means of obtaining a copy than asking a co-worker to illegally (IMO) copy a file and bring it to him.
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DerbyDad03 wrote:

It seems you just answered your own question(s). You know he isn't 'entitled' to see the file. Giving it to him would make her complicit in what you see as an illegal activity. Tell him no or tell the the boss before it involves more than him and her.
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On 08/26/11 9:52 PM, 83LowRider wrote:

My question was "What would *you* do?"
I already know what I would if I were either the parties involved.
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DerbyDad03 wrote:

The last sentence in my previous post kinda says it all.
I understand throwing out a story for the sake of conversation or to get another opinion. In the end tho, it is up to each of us individually to do what we know <or at least consider> to be right. The opinion of anyone else (not involved) doesn't matter.
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On 08/28/11 7:13 AM, 83LowRider wrote:

It only matters if it sparks an interesting discussion.
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snipped-for-privacy@snyder.on.ca wrote:

Under the law that is still grossly illegal and makes the person disclosing it (at least under the terms of law) subject to BIG fines and even jail time. He could probably subpoena it if needed.
--
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until patients started presenting with sexually
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Yes, Bob's certaining a shi+ for asking his co-workers to break the law.

True, but the subpoenaed copy might not be the one he was working from. (-: I think most people would be amazed at the initiative line managers show in creating fraudulent documents when they know a lawsuit's coming. Especially ones that downplay their culpability.
The law firm I worked for had a retired FBI document examiner on retainer to examine all subpoeaned exhibits for potential forgeries. The simplest test: run your finger over the ink on any handwritten document alleged to be more than a few months old. .
Anything recovered by subpoena is usually at least a few months old unless it's been recently created. Smudged ink is a sign it's not very old. As you might imagine safety log reports, time sheets, performance evaluations (especially in wrongful termination suits) and even contracts get mysteriously modified. If something that was supposed to be a year old smudged, it went into the "suspicious" pile. If only Dan Rather had used him, he might still have his old job. Dan's such fun to watch now that he's gone insane from the humiliation of Bush fitness report forgery debacle. Ah, the TV news. One story makes you, another story breaks you.
Back then is where I learned if you sign a multipage contract, each page should say 1 of X until X of X and be initialed and dated. Doing just that can make forging an "insert" page very, difficult.
-- Bobby G.
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On Aug 26, 8:32pm, snipped-for-privacy@snyder.on.ca wrote:

Then his lawyer would have to request the information using the proper procedures.
Jimmie
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wrote:

You do it and I'll take 50% to keep quiet.
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