OT. Worst U.S. blizzards

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A little perspective for those in the Northeast and sick of snow. http://tinyurl.com/4lufyy8
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So, how's all that global warming working for you?
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So is *anything* that happens. No matter what happens, hot/cold, wet/dry, hurricanes/calm, it's the expected symptoms of global warming.
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On 1/29/2011 5:55 PM snipped-for-privacy@att.bizzzzzzzzzzzz spake thus:

OK, Mr. Global Climate Change Denier, I say let's have this conversation in, oh, 5 years, after all doubt has been removed (and we're even closer to, or past, the "tipping point").
Until then, it's you, Fox News and (most of) the Repugnant Party that's in the minority against an overwhelming consensus of scientific opinion (or what the deniers call "bullying").
Hell, even our previous Governator, Ahnold S., was convinced of anthropogenic climate change. You haven't got much of a leg to stand on here.
--
Comment on quaint Usenet customs, from Usenet:

To me, the *plonk...* reminds me of the old man at the public hearing
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On 1/29/2011 8:33 PM, David Nebenzahl wrote:

I've watched climate change throughout my life and I haven't seen anything when it comes to natural weather cycles even though I was born in the middle of the last century. Introduce me to the 2000 year old man and have him tell me about climate change and perhaps I'll take you more seriously. :-)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dnLqLHWDg5E


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v
dSRv0bwxw

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mNhd35Il_8E


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4MguaS66Dko

TDD
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On 1/29/2011 11:54 PM, The Daring Dufas wrote:

Go to any good science museum and look at the tree ring exhibit. Or Google for the data from ice core samples. They have a pretty good record of the swings going back a couple thousand years at this point, at least as it is reflected in tree growth and winter snow deposits. Trivial example- naming Greenland (aka Vinland) was not entirely a con job. Vikings hit during a multi-decade heat wave, and it was a lot greener when they first colonized. Modern records of any reliability only go back a century or so.
--
aem sends...


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On 1/29/2011 11:08 PM, aemeijers wrote:

Scientific evidence is like The Bible, there are many different interpretations and the scientific method will always get thrown out the window when money is involved. The political beliefs of those holding the purse strings determine which course research takes.
TDD
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wrote:

Make your (precise) predictions, Mr Gore. I'll be here in five years.

More clueless, nonsense, Al.

Even? You *are* a moron.
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" in the minority against an overwhelming consensus of scientific opinion "
Consensus of opinion, scientific of not is NOT science. Galileo was imprisoned because he thought the world was round, against all consensus of scientific opinion.
Second, this consensus of opinion is a myth. It is the other way around.
Bob-tx
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On 1/30/2011 3:57 AM Bob-tx spake thus:

Since you brought up this example, it's true that the consensus of opinion was against Galileo, but it certainly wasn't "scientific" opinion. It was Church orthodoxy, remember? Science didn't really exist as a discipline back then. So not quite an apples-to-apples comparison with the present debate.
I will concede that consensus of opinion, scientific or not, doesn't constitute proof of anything. And science can be wrong. Anthropogenic global warming hasn't been proven, any more that evolution/natural selection has been proven. But it's as foolhardy to argue against AGW as it is to seriously question evolution on scientific (not religious) basis, even if every last detail hasn't been worked out.
Plus, it's a little more compelling, as our well-being as a species may well depend on what we do in response to this phenomenon.

Well, that's just wrong. I leave it to you to check the literature, as they say.
--
Comment on quaint Usenet customs, from Usenet:

To me, the *plonk...* reminds me of the old man at the public hearing
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"Bob-tx" <No Spam no contact> wrote in message

Here is an article from The Washington Post paper in 1922
Global Warming
The Washington Post
The Arctic ocean is warming up, icebergs are growing scarcer and in some places the seals are finding the water too hot, according to a report to the Commerce Department yesterday from Consulafft, at Bergen, Norway. Reports from fishermen, seal hunters and explorers all point to a radical change in climate conditions and hitherto unheard-of temperatures in the Arctic zone. Exploration expeditions report that scarcely any ice has been met as far north as 81 degrees 29 minutes. Soundings to a depth of 3,100 meters showed the gulf stream still very warm. Great masses of ice have been replaced by moraines of earth and stones, the report continued, while at many points well known glaciers have entirely disappeared.
Very few seals and no white fish are found in the eastern Arctic, while vast shoals of herring and smelts which have never before ventured so far north, are being encountered in the old seal fishing grounds. Within a few years it is predicted that due to the ice melt the sea will rise and make most coastal cities uninhabitable.
I neglected to mention that this report was from November 2, 1922. As reported by the AP and published in The Washington Post - 88 years ago!
Bob-tx
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"Bob-tx" <No Spam no contact> wrote:

-snip-
You didn't forget to mention that-- or maybe you just copied a bit too much. At any rate, the way you presented it just made it seem like so much Snopes-bait. Turns out that there was an article, though it didn't use the ominous term 'global warming' - and it wasn't published on Nov 2.
Here's the page from NOAA's archives- http://docs.lib.noaa.gov/rescue/mwr/050/mwr-050-11-0589a.pdf
And another photocopy with some discussion here- http://wattsupwiththat.com/2008/03/16/you-ask-i-provide-november-2nd-1922-arctic-ocean-getting-warm-seals-vanish-and-icebergs-melt /
Jim
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http://wattsupwiththat.com/2008/03/16/you-ask-i-provide-november-2nd-1922-arctic-ocean-getting-warm-seals-vanish-and-icebergs-melt /
Thanks Jim for the article - The piece I posted came in my email & I just copied a bit too much.
Bob-tx
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On Jan 30, 5:57am, "Bob-tx" <No Spam no contact> wrote:

Guess what you have in common with the folks that persecuted Galileo.
-C-
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Historically, the claim of consensus has been the first refuge of scoundrels; it is a way to avoid debate by claiming that the matter is already settled. Michael Crichton (1942 - 2008), Caltech Michelin Lecture, January 17, 2003
--
"Even I realized that money was to politicians what the ecalyptus tree is to
koala bears: food, water, shelter and something to crap on."
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David Nebenzahl wrote:

In real science, there is no such thing as "consensus." Regrettably, many disciplines use what they can of the scientific method(s) and claim the moniker "science" for their area of interest. Fields such as sociology, psychology, and, yes, climatology use bits and pieces and call it good.
And in your claim of "scientific opinion," just where does the consensus lie? That the earth is warming or that the warming is the result of mankind flipping-off mother nature? If the former, get over it and move on. If the latter, does it make sense to adjust our actions?
Those who claim "scientific opinion" supports this or that position cannot be sensible. "Science" and "opinion" are mutually exclusive! If a phenomena is "scientific" it is provable, or at least demonstrable, and compels a rational mind to accept the hypothesis. The word "opinion" means a "firmly held belief not based on fact." You simply cannot have both.
There are many quarrels with the notion of "Global Warming."
* Some say the changes we are experiencing are "weather," not climate. * Others say that even if global warming is occurring, humans are not in the loop. * A few, and I include myself in this group, say "maybe," but FOR SURE the cost to prevent the consequences far, far outweigh merely dealing with the results (if they actually happen).
And, in fact, there are many pluses to global warming: Longer growing seasons and the innundation of places like New York, Washington, and San Francisco.
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David Nebenzahl wrote:

The earth has been warming and cooling for tens, maybe hundreds of thousands of years. It doesn't make sense to me to blame this current warming on man. Other things evidently caused it before. Why not this time? A link here to ice core data from central Greenland: http://preview.tinyurl.com/y9bpgco The link is to a site called Wattsupwiththat.
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We're all going to die. Run for your lives.
But where?
Steve
Heart surgery pending? Read up and prepare. Learn how to care for a friend. Download the book. http://cabgbypasssurgery.com
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And those who realize and admit that fact have a lot less angst during the process.
Steve
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That's true. And there were reasons for the Earth's warming and cooling. Can you point to any of the events from the past that caused the Earth to warm that is happening today?
-C-
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