OT Windows 10

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On Sun, 21 Feb 2016 12:39:39 -0700, Don Y

I'll wait until those cards are dealt. Then we can talk about it.

As far as I can tell, Linux distros come with adequate web browsers right now. I just booted a Linux stick I set up a while ago. Had no trouble browsing the web with the Firefox that is included. Depends what you do with your PC.

Maybe you would. I won't. Like I said, why would MS screw up a good revenue stream? They make plenty as it is from licensing fees. Most people pay that fee when they buy a computer with Windows installed. In any case I'll just wait for the fat lady to sing. You mentioned phone and cable. My home phone is Ooma. It costs about 5 bucks a month. My cells are pay-as-you-go. They cost about 150 bucks a year for two. Cable TV is another story, due to my wife liking her shows. But I'm getting pissed off enough to dump it.
snip

Well, it had no problem with 8gb, but choked with 16.

Can't say it didn't, but my games wouldn't work with yours.

Do what works best for you.

I never envied deployment guys.
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On 2/21/2016 2:09 PM, Vic Smith wrote:

I've already made that decision: XP is the end of the MS line, for me. I'll buy a Mac if I have to move to anything "new".

If all you want is a browser, you don't even need a full-featured OS. Most folks using computers want more than just a browser. This is especially true of students.

I haven't given MS a dime since the last commercial version of their C++ compiler: Microsoft C/C++ 7.0 (predated Visual C++ 1.0). I interrupted their (telephone!) support guy's "script" handling of my call, read him a 5 line code snippet, told him to compile it -- then waited for him to see the bug.
"Yup! That's a bug (passing a pointer to a member function, or something like that)! But, we no longer support that product. However, as a registered user, you're entitled to an upgrade to our new product (read: "new set of bugs") for just..."
<plonk>
Since then, all of my software work has been done under one of the free BSD's. And, every MS OS I've obtained by using factory reinstall disks -- which *usually* agreed with the CoA on the machine in front of me.

Have you seen the projections for MS's future growth/revenues? The past basis for their business model is falling apart. Got to figure out how to generate new, ONGOING revenue streams. XP screwed up their business model -- the lemmings didn't eagerly trade in their old OS for "new and improved".

How many folks do you think subscribe to a VoIP provider? By far, *business* has swallowed that pill, not individuals. Most individuals are moving to cell phone only communications.
And, last figure I saw for businesses showed something like a 5% adoption rate.

We have neither cable nor (commercial) VoIP -- despite our ISP being very heavily into the latter.

We don't play games. I spend enough time WORKING at the computer and am not keen on using it for anything more than that! HTPC is a turnkey appliance -- cheaper and more maintainable than buying a DVD player! (I can replace the DVD drive in literally 10 seconds WHILE the machine is running)

Exactly. I go through an "asset review cycle" each year end. What tools do I want to retire, which do I want to upgrade, how do I want to reallocate my capabilities given my expected needs in the NEXT year.
So, once a year, I am *keenly* aware of what it costs to upgrade or reshuffle applications. Even if it's something as "simple" as installing a larger disk drive!
As a result, my "maintenance strategy" has been tweaked each year to reflect the pains encountered from the previous efforts.

That's why embedded systems are so much more rewarding! You deal with users *once* -- through their agent (The Marketing Guy) before you start the design. As changes/upgrades are expensive once kit is deployed in the field (i.e., purchased), it's "speak now or forever hold your peace".
Of course, for the very same reason, you get to make *zero* mistakes! You can't rely on your users to figure out what's wrong with your design or implementation and "advise" you of the needed changes. It's all sink or swim!
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On Sun, 21 Feb 2016 19:36:56 -0700, Don Y

Actually a LOT of Voip phones here in Canada - Rogers internet also provides Rogers HomePhone - which is VOIP and is fairly heavily subscribed. A fair amount of MagicJack too

Fibernetics and Newt have a pretty substantial business VOIP presence here in the Golden Triangle area as well.

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On Sun, 21 Feb 2016 12:39:39 -0700, Don Y

So have I - 26 years and counting

An "image" can be incompatible and unrecoverable to a new machine, and is reliant on the imaging software. (just like the old "backup" programs) Not so a "clone" - and with the price of media (hard drives in particular) keeping an uptodate "clone " of important drives is not an onerous job.
That clone can be put into any compatible machine and with a few driver changes be up and running in no-time - EXEPT on newer computers implementing the EUFI bios system.
I'm sure there is a way around that bugaboo too, but I haven't gotten there yet.

Been digging those ditches for 26 years. And every few years they throw different clay and rocks into the mix, so you need to develop different picks and shovels to dig the ditch. The filling of the ditches tends to be automatic - so you end up redigging the same ditch time after time if you don't shore up the walls effectively.
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On 2/21/2016 3:55 PM, snipped-for-privacy@snyder.on.ca wrote:

I bought my first PC 30 years ago. Been doing "this" for closer to 40. Priot to the PC, using CP/M (MP/M) boxes and "development systems" (think 8" floppy disks with 64KB of memory)

Images take many forms. I can recreate a carbon copy of a drive from one of my images -- if the targeted drive is the exact same size. At the same time, I can install that image on a *larger* drive (or, on a different *partition* of a larger drive) and get the same performance/viability.
If I move it to another machine, Windows is likely to complain if some driver is no longer appropriate. Now I've got to tweek the "installation" in the hopes of making it work. And, any hardware that is simply *missing* will cause software that relies upon it to not work (unless I can compensate).
For my Eunice boxes, an image will uneventfully reinstall on a new drive and boot properly (because I am very careful about building custom kernels that support the varieties of hardware that I encounter -- not a "kitchen sink" approach).

An issue I will gladly avoid -- sticking to XP.

When you are supporting your own (personal) IT, you have far more leeway in deciding HOW you want to tackle the jobs. You don't have outside pressures dictating when/how you must upgrade, etc.
[Well, clients want to pressure you to use the tools that they've adopted. You can either refuse, bill them for a license to purchase said tool for your own use -- and install it on a "discardable" machine -- or evaluate their suggestion to see if the acquisition "makes sense" from your expected business plans.]
E.g., I spent $3K on an AutoCAD license 25+ years ago for a project. I've not updated the license in the years since. Yet, it has served me well -- letting me take advantage of hardware upgrades for improved performance (in 1990, I would let a machine sit for 24 hours just attempting to render ONE scene!). Clients in the years since have never complained that the documents I've provided weren't created on the latest-and-greatest version of the tool. They "work" just fine.
All those upgrade$ averted! :>
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On Sun, 21 Feb 2016 19:55:18 -0700, Don Y

It's clients systems that have me redigging ditches. I have reduced my workload since I no longer have the responsibility of maintaining the servers and maintaining the backup, but just keeping up with the other changes keeps me busy a couple days of the week.

I still use a lot of old toold too - being forced to upgrade some that don't work on 64 bit OS

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On Sun, 21 Feb 2016 12:20:10 -0600, Vic Smith

Of course - it is a "Norton" product. More specifically it is a Symantec product - they have managed to take virtually every excellent product line they have absorbed and turn it into an unmitigated disaster in 2 revisions or less.

I've quit using every symantec product I have ever used (and over the years, that is a LOT of product) because there are better alternatives to virtually everything they produce or market today - and half of them are free!!!)
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On 02/21/2016 03:14 PM, snipped-for-privacy@snyder.on.ca wrote:

+1
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On 02/21/2016 03:14 PM, snipped-for-privacy@snyder.on.ca wrote:

We had the mistaken impression that some clients were using Norton Security so we installed it on a couple of machines for testing. That was strictly the consumer version from Aunt Emily who doesn't have a clue and needs to be protected from the cold, cruel world.
Symantec Endpoint is actually what out clients tend to use. As such, we give them a list of directories that need to be excluded from the scans. Still, Symantec sometimes quarantines a few of our executables and we have to submit a request for them to keep their paws off.
McAfee is even worse. A little searching will turn up a video by John McAfee that leaves no doubt about what he thinks of the mess they've turned it into. Peter Norton isn't as shit house crazy as McAfee but I'd imaging he has a few juicy comments about his namesake.
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wrote:

I used to deal directly with Peter Norton - back in the
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wrote:

I used to deal directly with Peter Norton back in the Norton Utilities days. If we had a problem, I got on the horn with Peter and the problem was solved. Symantec Support is a total oxymoron. Symantec end-point is just a way to turn a fast computer into a doorstop- particularly in a network situation connected to the internet.
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On 02/21/2016 08:34 PM, snipped-for-privacy@snyder.on.ca wrote:

When our support people come looking for help when a client complains about slow operation, the first question I ask is "Is the AV configured to exclude all our directories?"
Then we move on the the network mayhem. I recently found a site that had configured the workstations on their LAN to use 8.8.8.8 for DNS.
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On 2/21/2016 9:44 PM, rbowman wrote:

How do they resolve the names of their *own* hosts? Or, is everything hardcoded IPs?
I use a combination approach. I've a little box (FX160) that provides my core services (incl DNS). So, I can deal with "George", "Jane", "Judy", "Elroy" and "Astro" (there used to be an Orbitty but he got discarded; "Rosey", "RUDI" and "Mack" are access points) without having to remember explicit IP's.
But, I've also assinged the names with some rationale behind the choice of specific IP's. I.e., the Jetson's are x.x.x.70's and obviouosly (?) assigned in the order mentioned above. So, if the DNS host goes down, I can still access these hosts by reconstructing the IP address from the memory of just the starting address for that group of "characters".
[_The Rocky and Bullwinkle Show_ contributes "Rocky", "Bullwinkle", "Boris" and "Natasha" (names for some NAS boxes); "MrPeabody", "Sherman", and "WABAC" (my repository, of course!). Similarly, _Tennessee Tuxedo and His Tales_ contributes "Tennessee", "Chumley" and "MrWhoopee" (my "services server" -- with "3DBB" for the RDBMS!). Another "character grouping" for the laptops and portables. And, one for the X terminals. Still another for Windows hosts (The Jetson's are Sun boxen). Etc. Put a physical label on each machine "as a reminder" -- esp for the headless boxes that I can't just "ask" for their names -- and I can keep working regardless of failures or configuration errors]
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On 02/21/2016 10:24 PM, Don Y wrote:

The hosts file -- until the addresses on the LAN change.
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On 2/22/2016 7:44 AM, rbowman wrote:

OhMiGosh! Nobody can be THAT stupid -- for more than say *two* hosts?? What a maintenance nightmare...
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Not at all. Set your /etc/nsswitch.conf to point your local hosts file to the NIS server host map.
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On 2/22/2016 11:53 AM, Scott Lurndal wrote:

They DON'T have their own DNS service -- but DO have NIS? :>
(I also assumed these were Wintel boxen)
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On 02/22/2016 12:05 PM, Don Y wrote:

What I referred to were Windows boxes.
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Sorry to know your experience with Symantec. If you need any help with Symantec Endpoint Protection just let us know. -Chetan
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On Mon, 22 Feb 2016 07:25:40 -0800 (PST), snipped-for-privacy@gmail.com wrote:

Not a chance I'll ever waste another minute on that piece of crap. NEVER
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