OT Windows 10

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Hi Frank,
On 2/20/2016 3:41 PM, Frank wrote:

What happens if you're "offline"? What happens if you STAY offline? (i.e., is there a point where it simply refuses to operate? Or, is there likely to *be* a point where it refuses to operate unless it can "get a cookie" from it's masters??)

I tend to avoid ads (in my browser as well as what I consciously set my eyes on). I don't buy the whole "we're trying to improve YOUR user experience argument: if you'd wanted to do that, you'd make the product more secure, less buggy, more responsive, etc. -- not push advertising at me (for things you THINK that I might be interested in).
So, I'm suspicious of folks using that sort of logic to market a *free* OS to me (or, in this case, to the kids that I'll be serving).
OTOH, this may just be "the way its going to be", going forward.
Sad that the FOSS community wastes so much time adding features and tweeking performance instead of concentrating on offering a reliable, stable product that could compete. But, so long as you've got folks fixated on stroking their own sense of *personal* accomplishment -- instead of addressing that need -- then the trend will never change (a mindset is a tough thing to shake)

I'm sure MS is watching the numbers and won't get Draconian until they know their users have no choice. The fact that they track how long you are *in* windows suggests a "usage billing" option may be in the cards for the future -- like "minutes" and "data" on your cell phone.
Maybe *that* will be what's needed to kill the kitty videos? :>
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On 2/21/2016 9:32 AM, Don Y wrote:

Ads in the game are not that intrusive but fact they are there makes it annoying. As for Win 10, I heard Kim Komando say that the underlying architecture is better. I also use ad blocks on my Win 10 desktop and Android tablet but Android pop ups are far worse than Windows.
Websites are just as guilty of this intrusiveness crap. I was looking at new model cars on a car maker site and later logging into another site there was an ad for the cars I was looking at. My Firefox browser is set to delete all cookies and history when I leave it but session stuff can get through.
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On 2/21/2016 12:42 PM, Frank wrote:

I've decided my brain is simply "wired wrong". I don't respond to ads. When I want something, I go looking for it -- along with first-hand (verifiable) accounts of its performance, etc.

There are *lots* of ways to track "you" and/or "your machine".
When you visit a web site, they can "profile" your browser (Firefox/Chrome/IE/etc., plus version). They know what OS you are running (Mac/PC, version).
<http://id.furud.net/
They can figure out which fonts you have configured. Whether you have flash enabled or not. Your tracking preferences. Etc.
<https://panopticlick.eff.org
[And, of course, they have an IP address that correlates with you (in some way -- it may not be *your* IP address but it is related to you!).]
So, they can play the numbers game: how many people (machines) have this combination of these "attributes".
[In my case, my browser configuration is reasonably unique -- anything that stores a representation of my browser "fingerprint" can identify me (well, not *me* but, rather, my browser!) whenever I revisit the site.]
And, there's nothing to prevent someone (someTHING) from SHARING that information behind the scenes. E.g., every site that uses googleadservices is effectively relaying this information to google (actually, THEY aren't doing it but, instead, are telling *you* to do it for them! By directing YOUR browser to fetch some bit of script from that domain!)
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What do you expect with a "free" OS from a for-profit corporation?? It's going to be paid for one way or another.
Between IOS, Windows, and Android I've decided for myself and my requirements, Windows is the lesser of 3 evils.

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On 2/21/2016 5:58 PM, snipped-for-privacy@snyder.on.ca wrote:

Same here. I do not mind paying but don't like the pestering that can come with free stuff.
Short look at Linux told me I'd be paying for it with sweat equity.
I like to use computers. I like to use my cars. But, I don't care to be tinkering under the hood with either.
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You too??
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On 2/21/2016 4:46 PM, Frank wrote:

Yup. Each time I've looked to Linux for an answer, I've come away wondering if I shouldn't, instead, be asking a different QUESTION! :<

Ditto. In my case, my vocation *and* avocations lie with this sort of technology. So, I can make it do all sorts of things for me (or my clients).
But, I'm not keen on maintaining something that shouldn't need maintenance. When was the last time you upgraded the software in your microwave oven? Dishwasher? Automobile?? Did any of those things suddenly become LESS of their former selves because of the "missed" upgrade?
I worked with a guy who was constantly tweaking our "math library" (little "subprograms" that we employed in our products to perform certain calculations). No idea what he hoped to achieve with all the effort expended on that task (is he expecting to improve on 2+2=4? Is there a MORE CORRECT answer??).
We would jokingly refer to his efforts as "RE-bugging the math library" (cuz his changes inevitably broke SOMETHING)
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On 02/21/2016 08:53 PM, Don Y wrote:

I've got 338 days uptime on this box (OpenSUSE). Guess I haven't been upgrading it as I should...
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On 2/21/2016 10:23 PM, rbowman wrote:

I ran a FreeBSD 1.1.5.1R box for a couple of *years* in the early/mid 90's.
"Why upgrade? It's working fine!" With a UPS, there's no need to ever reboot (unlike windows that requires a reboot any time you try to change anything "significant")
I'm surprised MS hasn't scheduled a cron job to automatically initiate reboots -- rather than FIX leaks! :>
A testament to lack of memory leaks -- esp when you consider most of those processes start at IPL and just keep running (unlike windows apps that can leak and have those leaks "repaired" when the process dies and its resources are recovered!)
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On 02/21/2016 10:50 PM, Don Y wrote:

They've come close. The default for Server 2008 was to download and apply patches automatically. The people in a 911 dispatch center get a little testy when the server reboots in the middle of calls. It's easy enough to change the setting but that means the server never gets the updates until you absolutely have to reboot and then there can be a hundred or so.
Windows was never meant for the five nines world.
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On 2/22/2016 8:14 AM, rbowman wrote:

Yeah, but the reboot(s) are to apply the patches. Imagine if they simply forced a reboot to ensure everything was starting from a "known state"? (Don't worry about memory leaks or data corruption; just reboot often enough that the consequences never manifest!)
One strategy for high reliability devices is to deliberately reboot them so they are in a known state. I.e., instead of a big loop, just let it run one iteration and arrange for HARDWARE to kick the reset at about the same time. Note that this differs from a watchdog which is NEVER intended to trip -- doing so is a sign of a failure!
But, you don't do this (regular resets) to HIDE flaws but, rather, prevent anomalous conditions from hanging your product (e.g., a bit getting flipped in some flag that controls your code/loop)

Yup. So, you defer the updates -- which means the problem gets bigger as well as the cost of the eventual "fix"... which means you postpone it still more...

It's hard making things that "just (continuously) run". My automation system is never intended to see a reboot. So, how do you introduce updates? Major configuration changes? New hardware? You have to address these possibilities in the initial design -- you can't "retrofit" them!
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On Sun, 21 Feb 2016 20:53:12 -0700, Don Y

About 1984 I worked with a guy who talked about selling his print sub-routine for big bucks. It forced his Epsom printer to do a carriage return. That guy was a real trip.
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On 2/21/2016 11:25 PM, Vic Smith wrote:

There are a couple of very distinct attitudes towards "intellectual property". Some folks think their ideas are extra special -- as if the idea itself is the most important thing! Other folks realize that the idea is cheap -- it's the development that separates the men from the boys (perseverance, resources, resourcefulness, etc.). Others see everything as "obvious" (often in hindsight) and, as a result, not worth the effort to protect/capitalize upon.
After my first patent, I became so disillusioned about the whole process that I've steadfastly refused to get involved with any patents on any of my work. When you look at some of these "inventions", you can't say anything other than "What a joke"!
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On Mon, 22 Feb 2016 00:06:03 -0700, Don Y

The trouble with patents is they are totally useless if you don't defend them - and the cost of defence usually excededs the value of the patent by a significant margin over the long term.
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On 02/22/2016 06:08 AM, snipped-for-privacy@snyder.on.ca wrote:

Ask SCO about that. There was a court ruling last week that suggests their ship is going down for the last time.
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On 2/22/2016 6:08 AM, snipped-for-privacy@snyder.on.ca wrote:

Exactly. Patents only make sense to big corporations with intimidating legal departments.
From the standpoint of a naive teenager, "patent" sounded like something neat and impressive: "Wow! This must be a really GOOD idea if it is patented!"
But, it's like watching sausage being made: the reality is often very different (i.e., it's just "who got there first and who was willing to pay the filing fees and preparation fees")
If you want to protect something, go the trade secret route (copyright if it makes sense -- but, you're still left trying to locate counterfeits and argue that they are, in fact sufficiently identical to your original work). Trade secret, however, relies on treating your employees well enough that they won't spill the beans. Even NDA's only require that you treat it as you would YOUR OWN information (so, a guy who is loose with his own personal data can't be held to a higher standard with yours!).
Or, by far, the best approach is to simply always have something better that keeps customers coming back to you! Let competitors copy your functionality (which can usually be done in less effort/time than it took you simply because you've already done most of the thinking for them: "What should it do, how should it work") but you spend your time and money coming out with the NEXT, *better* device ("Why would I want that competitor's device? It doesn't have these other new features, capabilities, etc.")
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On Sat, 20 Feb 2016 09:37:12 -0700, Don Y

Win10 is fine. They are being spied on constantly by all the apps they are using on their smart phones. I can't believe the hysteria that has been created over win10 "spying".
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On 2/20/2016 6:46 PM, >>>Ashton Crusher wrote:

"Homeless teens". I.e., no job, no (formal) place to live. They have "reagan phones" (free) -- no smart capabilities.
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On Sat, 20 Feb 2016 18:46:47 -0700, ">>>Ashton Crusher"

I have no problem with Win10. I can't imagine the so-called "spying" affecting me. You can easily make it "look like" Win7. So you don't see any effect of it "spying." I see zero ads. That's zip, zilch, nada ads. Win10 is more robust than Win7 in my experience. Fewer hangs and hard resets. It also installs faster and has a smaller footprint.
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| I see zero ads. That's zip, zilch, nada ads.
You've said that before. Be patient. :)
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