OT Windows 10

See, there you go again, with the tin foil hat, MSFT bashing. No, I don't own any MSFT stock, never did. Feel better now?

As to the giving stuff away for free, MSFT is not losing any revenue from me. I've never bought an upgrade before and likely would not have bought Win 10. I suspect their income stream from the potentially lost upgrades doesn't amount to much. If it did, their stock would be tanking. I haven't paid for all the updates that I've received to my Android either. Maybe you should take up your concerns with Google and MSFT. Or better yet, just stop bitching about it.

Reply to
trader_4
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No, I updated my desktop machine but not (yet) the notebook.

But I am rather fussy about what I run on my Windows machines. E.g., as little email as possible. The Windows desktop is primarily for use with a rather specialized piece of hardware for which the only software is for Windows. The notebook primarily for use away from home, and now mostly with Linux.

Perce

Reply to
Percival P. Cassidy

I didn't say it wouldn't be offered again. If it is and someone doesn't plan to upgrade you just hide the update and don't install it.

Reply to
Ron

That is hiding it, not removing it. I also noticed that it slows down boot time.

Reply to
Ron

| MS has a reputation of throwing last year's bright idea under | the bus. The more or less defunct Silverlight is an example. The Edge | browser won't support ActiveX so anyone who invested in that technology | better figure out their next act.

And Active Desktop... Hailstorm... SPOT watches... Windows LIVE... .Net ...VB ... soon to be followed by everything Metro and WinPhone-ish. Fortunately I don't think many people were daring enough to invest in the Metro app idea. ActiveX at least has had a long run in IE and is still central to Windows.

Reply to
Mayayana

I think I understand what you mean. How do you like the windows 10?

Reply to
Emma D.

The insidious thing about this OS is they will start charging you for the updates in a year or so. W/10 is designed to be s subscription service, that is why it was distributed for free. Sort of like those AOL disks that were everywhere.

Reply to
gfretwell

Do you have evidence of charging in the future? I've seen unsubstantiated rumor, no facts.

Reply to
Ed Pawlowski

After 8's poor reception, this is a very important release. Apple is set to release OS X El Capitan and there might be some marginal utility in beating them out the door although I really doubt it. Then there is the back to school market. Send your kid to school with a shiny new Win10 laptop. In the past MS has even managed to screw up the Christmas market and Nadella needs to show he can dance better than Ballmer.

Reply to
rbowman

Where's the kid live? I need an upgrade from my $21 LG flipper that doesn't do much of anything except make phone calls.

I'm not a Luddite but I've noticed if i go to a concert or something half the people are dicking with their phone.

Reply to
rbowman

.NET is still alive although the 4.6 release has a neat little bug in the JIT compiler. It's not easy to trigger but if you're unlucky the last function to get called gets passed random parameters.

VB is still around even though it looks an awful lot like C#. unfortunately, converting VB6.0 code to VB .NET is a rocky road. We have some legacy 6.0 code and you'll have to pry VS6.0 out of the developers cold, dead fingers.

WinPhone was the classic

Consumer: I don't want to buy a WinPhone. There are no apps Developer: I'm not developing for WinPhones. Nobody buys the things.

MS even started giving away Express versions of Visual Studio that were pretty much uncrippled to try to pique interest.

ActiveX sort of grew out of OLE 2.0 and COM. You wouldn't have to rent a large auditorium to have a meeting of all the people who really understood how COM worked. apparently the MFC developers wouldn't be attending either. Of course COM had some complex and hideous hacks to make it work with VB. ActiveX and its wizards sort of made life easier.

The real problem was letting an ActiveX control run in a browser. That lets the control interact with the local machine and is a security nightmare. Anything happening in a browser is supposed to be sandboxed.

When Chrome dumped Java applets, which had the same access abilities, ActiveX wasn't far behind. In fact a Java applet in IE was actually an ActiveX control.

Reply to
rbowman

All your tin foil hat, MSFT bashing rhetoric reminds me why developers tend to refer to consumers as lusers.

So if it wasn't free you wouldn't have upgraded. In the past, MS has charged for new OS's and they're suddenly handing out freebies. Do you have any curiosity about what their new business model might be? No, I guess you don't as long as it's 'free'.

Reply to
rbowman

It is a pretty pervasive rumor. The only question is how much is subscription and what the "free" guys get.

Reply to
gfretwell

My Android smartphone (which is $300 cheaper than the grandkids iPhone) will also give directions. I just can't talk to it so it's not as useful to input questions when driving.

Yup. Smartphones are everywhere these days. At a recent graduation I counted 15 or so lit screens, and those were just the ones in front of me. Oh...and mine too. Graduations are so boring...

Reply to
J0HNS0N

If you have AT&T as your carrier you can get an iPhone for $100 with a 2 year commitment plan. No biggie for me since I've been with "AT&T" since around 1998 (Bellsouth, Cingular, AT&T mergers).

Reply to
Ron

That isn't completely true. People that bought Vista machines were able to get Windows 7 for free. I don't recall the timeline, but my father (RIP) bought a very high-end HP laptop with Vista. *I* found out that he could get it upgraded for free within the specified timeline. So he too it back to Best Buy and they told him he was TWO days too late. And even after contacting MS they said, "you didn't make the deadline".

It wasn't the end of the world though, once MS released the 2 service packs for Vista it ran just fine. My little sister has the laptop now and I upgraded it to Windows 7 after AT&T Uverse (she had Comcast and it worked fine) couldn't figure out why it wouldn't connect to their wireless router.

Reply to
Ron

Many carriers have subsidized phone plans like that. Even though you think that iPhone only cost $100 you are still paying near full price (or more) in inflated service costs over those 2 years. That's why you have to pay big $$$$ to break the contract early.

I too am on a subsidized phone plan. My list price $350 Kyocera phone was "free" with a 2 year Verizon contract. But we all know it really wasn't free, don't we.

Kinda sounds like the W10 "free" upgrade thing, huh. We know there's likely a catch somewhere but unlike the phone companies we just haven't figured out where yet.

Reply to
J0HNS0N

Unless something has changed with AT&T, I got my iPhone 4s about 2 1/2 years ago and my bill hasn't changed since day one. Before that I upgraded my phones for free and my bill was always the same.

Reply to
Ron

It's not a new idea. M$ has been trying to get the general public to cozy up to the idea for yrs. But, with Linux looming at every corner, who is gonna embrace the idea of never actually owning yer OS.

Adobe had no such reservations. All you can get from Adobe, now, is new subscriptions for Photoshop. I think Autodesk did the same with AutoCad. Not sure, as I've been using Linux fer 15 yrs, so don't get into arguments over M$ or Apple. ;)

nb

Reply to
notbob

| > The insidious thing about this OS is they will start charging you for | > the updates in a year or so. | > W/10 is designed to be s subscription service, that is why it was | > distributed for free. | | Do you have evidence of charging in the future? I've seen | unsubstantiated rumor, no facts.

One might ask that the other way around: What makes you think they won't be charging? Where have you been that you don't know this is Microsoft's longterm plan?

There are ads on the Start Menu. The Win10 version of Solitaire presents with an option to either see ads with each play or to pay a subscription. (A crappy little program like Solitaire, and you can't even buy it. You can only rent!) I know this just from reading news online in the 3 days since Win10s release. Microsoft are gradually phasing out MS Office, to be replaced with the online rental version. So how do you *not* know that rental is their longterm plan?

Microsoft have made very clear, for several years now, that their business has been recast as "devices and services". Here's a quote from 3 years ago:

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The devices part is all but kaput, given that they've managed to entirely destroy Nokia, which used to make 40% of all cellphones, and that the Windows/Metro smart phones have been a near total failure. Their Surface tablet has seen some success, but in general MS charges too much for their hardware. And they seemed to hint when Surface came out that they were mostly trying to "set an example" for tablet makers.

So it's mostly services. They're not mentioning software anymore. Microsoft used to be the biggest

*software* company in the world, and they no longer advertise that as their product. Shouldn't that tell you something? It's not only their ads. It's also their official stated position to ther media and shareholders.

The Privacy terms now include Windows. I don't know when that started, but I don't remember seeing any privacy terms in XP or Win7. The very idea that one needs a legal privacy document for an operating system is a radical step.

Microsoft started all of this back in 1998. The Active Desktop theme was meant to put ads on the Desktop. Remeber the Channel Bar? It was a billboard with ads for Disney and others, stuck to the Desktop. A number of companies paid to get icons pre-installed on Win98, in hopes that people would "subscribe to their channel", which meant getting a dynamic ad fixed to the Desktop. (There were dozens of such icons from ther likes of Forbes, I think Citibank, etc, in a folder that, if I remember correctly, was Windows\Web\Media\ on win98/ME)

There were also "Internet keyboards". Computing was moving to the Internet, or so all the media crowed. Anyone who wasn't a loser would be throwing away their PC to get a "thin client" -- a tiny, crappy PC for using online services.

Microsoft's Hailstorm mess was another attempt at services. Software as a Service (SaaS) has been a mostly failed, industry-wide fad since the mid-2000s.

It's all based on some simple facts: Computers used to cost a lot of money and buying new gear was always worthwhile. Software was the same. Moving from a 400 MHz CPU to a 450, and from Photoshop 4 to Photoshop 5, was a must for commercial users, despite costing them thousands of dollars. But hardware and software have both matured. That's why phones are the big thing now. That's why the PC era is "dead". That's why rental and services. Not because people stopped using PCs but because there are no longer crazy profit margins. (The development of high speed access has also played a big part. Services simply weren't feasible in 2000, with dial-up.)

Given all of that, there's an industrywide fad that's currently at high heat: rental. Phones are essentially rented. Software is becoming subscription. Since most people won't really need to buy version X+1 of program XYZ, the only way now to make it a steady income source is to rent it.

Rental is also a big factor in the trend toward system restrictions. PCs have been heading toward interactive TV for a long time now. But if you can install all of the free or cheap software that you need then you won't rent it. Options are to charge for the OS and/or make it very difficult for people to use their own software, by manufacturing incompatibility, increasing restrictions, etc. They've already got the average person afraid to touch anything that didn't come from a big, approved corporation. And Metro apps require a license to write, as well as a 30% extortion fee to Microsoft in order to sell through their store. (The double edged sword of security again. The new apps, whether MS or Apple or Google, are increasingly hard to get and use except through the respective, official, rental and sales portal.)

You might think that extortion is a strong word, but I can write Windows software today, put it online, and people can use it. I do that now. I don't need any license or payment to Microsoft. That's not true of Metro apps. They're only allowed to be sandboxed trinkets, with little access to the system, with MS in control. (Ironically, apps are becoming a nasty privacy problem, despite being sandboxed: They often get access to things like location data and then sell that to advertisers running ads in the apps.)

Some might say that all of this is because the public is unwilling to pay for product. Yet the public used to pay $600+ for Photoshop. Now they don't even have that option. Photoshop is still installed on a computer. It's not really online at all. But it pretends to be online and one can only get it as rental software. Either way -- whether we want to assign blame and if so, to whom -- rental is the future, at least for the foreseeable future.

You seem to think all the talk about rental and privacy problems is a lot of negative gossip mongering. Speaking for myself, I write Windows software; I want and need to know what's going on and how the market is moving; I need to know what changes to expect when writing software in the future. I also follow news and technical information about such things as privacy and online security. So I'm uniquely placed to know about things that the general public has no idea of. Microsoft spends billions on marketing. They also get lots of softball reviews from the lapdog media. Look for the business-centric NYT, for instance, to cover only as much of the negative as they absolutely have to in order to maintain a veneer of credibility among the suckers who turn to the NYT for information. The tech media are likely to be worse. If they don't play ball with MS they won't get fast access to press releases and interviews.

So, speaking for myself, I write about this stuff because there is such a dearth of balanced information out there. I figure that people have a right to know the facts and make their own decisions. Wouldn't you want someone to do that in fileds where you have no knowledge or expertise? I'm not telling people not to buy Win10. I'm saying, "Here's what you're in for. Don't walk into it blind". If you want Win10 that's none of my business. Likewise, if people want to know the risks and down sides of Win10 then the fans have no business trying to shout down the people telling them.

Case in point: How many current Facebook addicts would have guessed, back when they started using a free bulletin board, that they'd end up having to see ads and give up privacy just to reach their friends? and every step of the way a few have said, "This is outrageous! I've a good mind to quit Facebook right now!" Then they'd log in again. Now, as Sheryl Snadberg so creepily put it, Facebookies friends

*are* the advertisers:

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?It enables brands to find their voices? and to have genuine, personal relationships with their customers?

(Brand here is a euphemism for corporate advertisers.)

Windows is going the same way, in very small steps so as not to alienate people. And look at how well MS is doing: They now have a privacy policy for Windows and ads on the Start Menu, yet you think it's merely unsubstantiated rumor that things are changing! (You know the one about cooking frogs? Supposedly if you raise the heat slowly enough they'll never jump out of the pan.)

Reply to
Mayayana

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