OT Win7 updates

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Anyone with Win7 knows that the update process has been throttled.
MS has now issued a rollup more or less equivalent to an SP2
you can get it here
http://catalog.update.microsoft.com/v7/site/Search.aspx?q125574
NOTE: You will need to use Internet Explorer and will probably have to go to "tools" and toggle the Active-X setting... I had to turn it off then back on to get it working
Also note: There is a 64 bit and a 32 bit version
I am downloading both of them now
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Says XP, and don't like my iPad.
Greg
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| MS has now issued a rollup more or less equivalent to an SP2 |
Anyone considering this needs to be aware that the "rollup" is just a package of updates since SP1 and almost certainly includes Microsoft's spyware ("telemetry") and the various trojan horse updates to force-install Windows 10:
https://tech.slashdot.org/story/16/05/17/1941210/microsoft-releases-big-convenience-rollup-update-for-windows-7#comments
Spyware and trojan horse may seem like strong language, but that's exactly what they are. It's not difficult to find reports online of people who were surprised to find their Windows 7/8 computer converted to Windows 10. And Microsoft is increasing the pressure:
http://www.tomshardware.com/news/windows-10-auto-schedules-updates,31802.html
Most people -- people who have default settings for Windows Update -- are in the crosshairs. If you want Windows 10 then the "rollup" is probably a good idea. If you don't want Windows 10 this is a good time to think about disabling the Windows Update service.
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On 18/05/2016 14:05, Mayayana wrote:

If one is a user/supporter of Microsoft products, what /possible/ reason could there be for anyone NOT to want the most up-to-date and efficient Windows operating system?
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David B." <"David B. wrote:

You go right ahead , I'm going to stay with XP . At least I have a chance of retaining *some* privacy ... W10 is the most invasive OS there is , spyware is built-in , and all your files are open for "them" to inspect . I'm not even going to get into cloud storage - why on earth would anyone want all their private information stored on someone else's computer ? The first thing I did when we got the wife a new laptop running W7 Pro/64 is install anti-W10 software .
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How much did it cost?
nb
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notbob wrote:

Free ! It's called GWX control panel .
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On 5/18/2016 11:13 AM, Terry Coombs wrote:

I'm not a computer person but heard that the underlying architecture of Win 10 is better. I downloaded it on former Win 8.1 system and it works well.
You are advised to turn off all the evasive crap in the settings. Before I did this, it would take a minute or two to shut down while MS gathered info. Irritating.
Wife was told by Best Buy geeks that her laptop with Win 7 would not take it but machine kept bothering her so she actually called MS, let tech take control of machine and remove the pestering ap.
Win 10 is intrusive but probably no worse than competitors like Apple and Google. I think they were trying to emulate them. They want to entice you in to buy more stuff.
Thing that irritated me most was removal of time wasting games like solitaire and Mine Sweeper but then letting you upload them from their ap store for free. Games are better but come with somewhat annoying pop-up ads which you can have removed by paying something like $1/mo.
Having an ad pop-up numerous times asking for donations to Hillary really pissed me off;)
I would also avoid buying MS Office as it also wants you to save docs to the cloud as first option. Free Open Office or Libre Office work just as well.
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On 5/18/2016 8:13 AM, Terry Coombs wrote:

Since the dawn of computing, there has been an oscillation between "big, centralized computer with dumb(er) terminals" and "smart, decentralized computers".
Originally, computers were expensive and terminals (TTY's, glass tty's, etc.) were relatively cheap -- tens of kilobucks vs. fractional kilobucks. So, the thinking tended to be shared and the display, individualized (one display per user).
But, this approach doesn't scale well; if you double the number of users, the "central computer" needs to become twice as powerful. If it is already pushing the state of the art, then that additional performance comes at a greatly (disproportionately) increased cost!
OTOH, when (personal) computers become affordable, you can decentralize all that "thinking" and put it in each user's hands. Now, twice as many users is easy to address -- twice as many computers! it "scales" linearly.
But, maintenance then becomes a hassle. You now have all those scattered computers that have to be kept up to date. So, have to add tools to each to allow for CENTRALIZED (! :> ) maintenance.
And, ad hoc sharing (i.e., my PC making MY files available to you over the network) also becomes a headache.
Eventually, someone realizes that what the user REALLY wants/needs is a good "user interface" (quality display, responsive keyboard, etc.) and that, most of the time, the user's computer is twiddling its thumbs!
So, "power" (speed/storage) moves back to a centralized device with GLORIFIED terminals for the users (e.g., this was the X Windows approach and Sun Ray system). Now, everything can be updated and maintained in one place -- but with user-specific customizations ("environment") to tailor the interface to their requirements/expectations!
Then, the network starts to become a bottleneck as folks start wanting to move more data to their displays (e.g., full motion video). So, you add capabilities at the "workstation" end, again. This leads to more pidgeon-holed data and configuration stuff so you again look to centralize. Esp when you start thinking about sharing across area codes instead of between cubicles...
Eventually, folks will RE-discover some shortcoming of the central service (cloud) -- like the fact that it requires The Internet to be operational -- and will move to the decentralized model, again.
And, the cycle repeats. Over and over.

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> Since the dawn of computing, there has been an oscillation between "big, centralized computer with dumb(er) terminals" and "smart, decentralized computers".

I'm not sure how relevant your history of computing is to the current situation. Mainframes worked for companies. Affordable PCs meant companies could be more flexible. But there's still a lot of centralization.
But there are differences in who's using the computers now. Security in corporate vs SOHo scenarios is almost reversed. In one the network is trusted but the user is not. In the other, the user is generally trusted but the network is not. In the latter there's rarely a role for centralization, other than software servers in small companies.
There are also big differences in what computers are used for. The corporate and SOHo user might be doing similar tasks, or not. There are varying options in balancing mobility with functionality. In the days of mainframes, computers were only for work, at work.
And there are big differences in terms of ownership and rights. Corporate computers, whether terminals or PCs, are controlled by the company. They have the right to watch you work and limit how you use the computer. You're being paid for using it, after all. SOHo users are in an entirely different world. They expect privacy. They own the files on their computer. Whatever they do is for themselves.
Probably the biggest factor now is a combination of trends:
1) Many people are happy having "consumer" services on a phone. That's their computer.
2) Many people are using tablets, again for consumption rather than creation activities. The old computer was mainly a creation device. One did work on it. The new tablet is mainly a consumption device. One reads, shops, gets entertainment media.
3) Computers and software have matured. Neither is now a high-profit market in the way it once was.
In many ways things haven't changed. There are still millions of people sitting at computers to do work. But increasingly that's not where the big money is. Microsoft cleaned up when the market was expensive software for business. (And they still clean up at that.) But the rise of Apple has been exclusively tied to consumer services. That's the emerging market. They make over $1 billion/year on sales at iTunes alone. That's stunning, considering they're selling limited rights to mediocre quality music at prices similar to what it costs to actually buy CDs. It's all about convenient entertainment. Microsoft wants in on that market.
The big problem with the Windows 10 software- as-a-service approach is that it's trying to conflate the different uses. You'll own your computer but Microsoft will have a right to change the software and watch what you do on your computer. You may be able to install software, but that ability will become increasingly limited as software goes to a rental model. In short, Microsoft is trying to put sand in your gas tank and sign you up for a taxi service. It would be fine if they just added a taxi service to their business, but that's not what they're doing. They figure they can just shoehorn their billions of Microsoft car owners into their taxi service and start shoveling bucks like Apple is doing.
People need to be aware of these changes. It really has nothing to do with trends toward or away from centralization. It has to do with market trends and the wide availability of high speed access, which are making it very attractive for big tech companies to own your life activities and charge you money for them. It's not always a direct payment, but if Microsoft shows an ad on Windows 10 they make money and they also fundamentally redefine whose computer it is. Just as Google has redefined privacy by spying on gmail users and Facebook has created a whole generation of people who've allowed Facebook to own their social life and are now dependent on Facebook to maintain their social life.
Accepting Windows 10 is not just going along with the ebb and flow of computer trends. It's going along with rental software, loss of privacy, and ubiquitous spyware watching what you do in order to show you ads. It's going along with turning the tool into interactive pay TV.
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On 5/18/2016 11:19 AM, Mayayana wrote:

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| > Accepting Windows 10 is not just going along | > with the ebb and flow of computer trends. It's | > going along with rental software, loss of privacy, | > and ubiquitous spyware watching what you do | > in order to show you ads. It's going along with | > turning the tool into interactive pay TV. | > | > | Well said...BUT...what's the alternative?
I guess that's hard to say. Personally I'm using XP on newish computers that I build myself. If/when I have to move to Win7 I hope I'll be able to do that. It's possible I'd eventually move to Linux, though I don't find that prospect attractive. I'm too used to Windows and have put a great deal of time into programming on Windows. I can write many of the software and utilities that I want, and I have fun doing it. I loathe the thought of eventually losing that facility.
It's hard to know how things will develop. It may be very difficult to have a real computer in a few years. On the other hand, I'm using an OS that's 15 years old. It still supports most software and hardware. And I have no need to rent any software in order to do what I want. (For that matter, I also get about 45 stations with a pair of rabbit ears and haven't had cable TV since the 90s. :)
Maybe with any luck Microsoft will fail miserably at their Win10 scam and come crawling back with a respectable product. But I'm not holding my breath. It seems to be closing in from all sides. Phones, tablets, computers... they're all becoming more locked down, less controlled by the owner, and less customizable in terms of privacy, installed software, etc.
For people who are not so techie.... It might be time to start thinking about Linux. Though there are also problems there. Ubuntu, for instance, is very controlling and I think they actually show ads on the Desktop. Linux is not necessarily the wild prairie it was a few years ago. And the wild prairie versions have their own problems. I've always thought of Windows being like a generic car, while Macs are like a sports car with the hood welded shut and Linux is like a car kit. The beauty of Windows is that MS has traditionally provided tools for any level of expertise. Macs won't let you change the oil, or even swap out the radio. And you can't drive them anywhere except on approved Mac roads. Sports cars are fun but not utilitarian. With Windows one can add gizmos to the dashboard and access most of the engine/drivetrain/body. It's fun and very usable. With Linux one has to become a greasemonkey, or just accept what's provided to civilian users. There's not much in between.
From what I see, I don't think most people care very much. Many are happy to buy a Mac and let Apple run their life. A number of people I know are using WinXP still, and I help them keep their systems running. I guess they'll be stuck with Win10 when it comes time to move on. They probably won't want to pay to have a custom Win7 box built. I would think there would be a market for someone to just provide a good, solid system for people to get work done, but there may not be a big enough market for it. A lot of pro photographers are accepting Photoshop as rental software. A lot of companies are accepting Office 365 as rental software. Almost everyone I know uses gmail and doesn't care about the spying. They can't be bothered to set up their ISP email, much less get their own domain. People are already accepting passivity. Remember how different it was during the PC craze? I learned HTML because my ISP gave me 5 MB free space for a website. I was thrilled to have my own front door on the Internet. But most people now don't see it that way. As has happened with so many cities across the US, a private shopping mall is replacing the public square and nobody's noticing.
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Wed, 18 May 2016 23:12:30 GMT in alt.home.repair, wrote:

You can adapt. You can still write code under linux, it's just a little different if you want it to be native for linux. Otherwise, vm, wine, dosbox (depending on what you're programming) are all available to you to continue just like you were doing under windows/dos.
Linux is worth the time to learn...imho.
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Hmmm. I most certainly don't understand how I can access a copy of a
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On 5/18/2016 6:32 PM, mike wrote:

Linux.
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On 5/18/2016 7:13 PM, Will wrote:

Is Apple / Mac still a force in the marketplace?
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On 5/18/2016 4:13 PM, Will wrote:

Yeah, that's the mantra. Linux, whatever that is today, can easily do 90% of what I spend my computer time doing right out of the box. It's the other 10% that's the deal breaker. Having the option to do whatever you want with the open-source system is small comfort to joe average who has neither the skill nor desire to delve below the surface. Once you get beyond the browser, the linux-based desktop computing platform is a minefield for joe average. The developers designed it that way and are PROUD of it.
Unless the mindset of the developers changes materially, linux will never be a viable alternative to windows on the desktop of the average user. Ninety-nine and a half just won't do.
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On 5/18/2016 9:25 PM, mike wrote:

Exactly. E.g., I could replace MOST of this machine with a FOSS OS and cherry-picked applications. Of course, tagging my MP3's would require finding a suitable FOSS MP3 tagger; viewing my PDF's (with embedded animations) would be a challenge. And, chase down yet another tool to manipulate ISO's.
Then, hope they play well together!

Yes, but that's also true of most Windows users. There are lots of little (and BIG!) tweaks you can do to a Windows system to change (improve?) the user experience or overall performance. But, most folks live with things out-of-the-box ... never even concerned that things could be "different".
(Let them change their wallpaper and they're thrilled!)

I think there has been some effort in some of the distros to provide a genuine "desktop" (so you're not dealing with a text console *or* a generic X Windows environment with xterms). And, some effort to get Open/Libre Office in shape to at least write up a simple memorandum.
Hooking up printers? Modifying ACL's? Sharing filesystems? things get murky pretty quickly.

The developers are obsessed with gadgetry and "performance". As if the user can really notice that the disk I/O subsystem is 2% (or 20%!) faster than it was in last WEEK's release!
This is somewhat understandable; they aren't "marketers" but, rather, developers/engineers. If it does what THEY want/need, they are happy! And, its always more fun to tinker with some new idea than it is to nail down every last bug in the old BORING software before putting it behind you.

In Linux's defense (and by that, I mean in the defense of the various Linux-based distributions), they are moving more in that direction than many of the other FOSS OS's. (I think FreeBSD is now headed in that direction as well).
A big part of the problem is that efforts are fractured; too many groups thinking THEY have *the* "solution" -- so none of them have a COMPLETE solution.
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On 5/18/2016 10:19 PM, Don Y wrote:

Yep, you pick a distro based on which has the least missing stuff for your needs. Then you go on a scavenger hunt to try to find the missing pieces. Then you just give up on the rest...like printer features, mouse capabilities beyond point and click, camera specialties, basically all the reasons you selected that hardware in the first place. Installation statistics suggest that most of us just give up in frustration, turn on a windows machine and just get on with life. I've got a dozen or more disks with desktop linux installed just waiting for the day that I can wipe them and install a distro that just works...AKA windows alternative.
There's plenty of wasted manpower to produce a distro that contains the BEST of all the distros in ONE place and polish the edges with more/better GUI configuration. ONE baseline distro. ONE COMPLETE repository with EVERYTHING compatible with everything else. Standards, consistency, managed evolution with no loss of freedom for anyone.
You want a new distro, just write an install script against that repository and you're done. If you screwed it up, just patch the script. All the bugfixers are working on the same bugs in the same place for the benefit of all.
Build it. Give vendors a STABLE target with some possibility of PROFIT...give desktop linux a legal entity with the ability to enter into binding contracts...create a BRAND...and the for-profit hardware and software vendors will come.
Linux has had many opportunities to take the desktop from MS. ME, Vista, 8 and now windows 10 just to name a few. They just don't want it. Taking responsibility is not nearly as much fun as futzing with your hobby on your own terms.
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| Installation statistics suggest that | most of us just give up in frustration, turn on a windows machine | and just get on with life. I've got a dozen or more disks with | desktop linux installed just waiting for the day that I can | wipe them and install a distro that just works...AKA windows | alternative. |
I've done something similar. I started with Red Hat 4, in 1999 I think. After spending weeks learning how to set up and use the system, I finally got reasonably comfortable with it. I felt like a bit of a wizard of esoterica. Then I was faced with one glaring problem: Functionality. There was no software and I still hadn't managed to get online with it.
Over the years I tried Mandrake, then Mandriva, then Suse. I actually have Suse 12 installed now. I've never really used it. And each version is only supported for 12 months. I've also repeatedly tried GIMP. That, too, is never quite fully baked after 20+ years in development.
Over the years Linux has also developed problems in the other direction. On the one hand, one needs to dig around in /etc config files, which are typically undocumented, in order to set up many things. On the other hand, the half-hearted attempt to accomodate normal users has resulted in excessive security. It took me a long time to figure out that root was no longer root and that I needed to perform special incantations to get control of the OS. (Apparently they stole that irritating design idea from Microsoft.)
The last time I thought seriously about Linux was a few years back when the WINE people came into Windows programming newsgroups looking for volunteers to cooperate over porting Windows software. I thought that sounded interesting. But the WINErs didn't want to cooperate. They were resistant to even providing guidance about how to best optimize and choose API calls in order to make WINE work. They just wanted me to be an official bug tracker for my software, while they tried to make it work. The whole thing had a strange, paramilitary feel to it. I was intended to be a private in some sort of Linux Boy Scouts and take orders from my commanding officer. When I tried to figure it out for myself I discovered that the WINE API was a mish mash of correlate functions implemented in non-correlating libraries. (One function from shell32 might be in one lib, while another was in a different lib, 3 others were nowhere to be found, and several were *somewhere*, but not stable enough to use.) So it was nearly impossible to figure out which API functions could be used dependably. Even the little bit I was able to figure out was a chore. The documentation came with instructions for "compiling" it to make it readable! Over 20+ years of WINE development, the WINErs have made no effort at all to provide tools or docs for Windows programmers.Too many of the Linux people are the type who can't use a coffee press but like to customize the functionality of their TV remote while they're eating their breakfast, of Starbucks kiddie coffee and a candy bar.
The little problems with Linux are an endless list. That's why, when people recommend Linux, it's almost never a serious recommendation with tips and advice. It's a one-word wisecrack: "Linux".
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On 05/19/2016 06:31 AM, Mayayana wrote:

Yeah, you need a whole grimoire of incantations to figure out 'sudo'. My favorite was a SUSE distro where if you were root the background changed to a red field with black bombs.
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