OT: While we're at it, how about his police shooting?

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The shooting a few days ago of a 12 year old black kid in Cleveland is getting a lot less attention than the Ferguson incident.
This is the compete surveillance video. If you just watch the first couple of mins and the last minute, those are the most relevant, nothing significance in the rest.
http://www.nydailynews.com/news/national/video-shows-tamir-rice-12-shot-dead-cleveland-police-article-1.2025132
It's another example of how doing dumb things can lead to bad results. And it raises questions in how the police responded. From what I can see so far, it's tragic and mistakes were likely made in the response, but I doubt these cops are guilty of a crime.
The only reason it apparently is getting less attention is because the kid did have a pellet pistol that looked exactly like a real gun. But from a chance to comply with the cops, the kid had almost no chance.
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trader_4 wrote:

I read toy guns supposes to have a red marking on the mouth of muzzle showing it is a toy gun. That kid's toy didn't have this marking.
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On 11/28/2014 10:50 AM, Tony Hwang wrote:

A pellet pistol is a real gun. It's not a toy. therefore no marking is required. It can kill small game and put your eye out. It is not a bb gun.
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On Friday, November 28, 2014 8:36:09 AM UTC-8, Chuck wrote:

Fact: It was an 'air soft' gun, it should have had an orange piece on the muzzle but it was missing.
Air soft guns are not lethal weapons.
Bottom line. Wave around a thing that looks like a real gun, don't cry about the results.
Harry K
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On Friday, November 28, 2014 11:45:24 AM UTC-5, Harry K wrote:

That's what I heard reported too. That by law, a gun like that, which looks like a real gun, is supposed to have an orange tip that helps distinguish it from a real gun. The gun in this case didn't have the tip.
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trader_4 wrote:

Any how. I blame boy's parents letting him play with the toy like that.
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On Friday, November 28, 2014 9:16:18 PM UTC-5, Tony Hwang wrote:

It wasn't a toy. Apparently it was an air pistol, that shoots plastic pellets. It can't kill you, but it could easily put your eye out.
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On 11/28/2014 10:45 AM, Harry K wrote:

<snip>

That's correct.
I posted a link a while back about a friend of mine who owns a bar. He was held up at gun point so he drew his Glock and killed one of the would-be robbers.
It later turned out to be a BB rifle ...but a split second decision in a dark bar would not have been sufficient to have known that.
If someone pulls a gun on you, you certainly have the right to blow them away. No charges were filed against my friend. One of the would-be robbers who got away was arrested a few weeks later for a robbery and he had a real gun
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On Friday, November 28, 2014 10:50:28 AM UTC-5, Tony Hwang wrote:

Not sure if that's a good idea. Someone could put a red marking on a real gun, making the police think it's a toy and make them drop their guard.
Paul
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On Fri, 28 Nov 2014 09:37:49 -0800, trader_4 wrote:

It's still not a good reason to shoot a 12 year old.
Thane
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On 11/28/2014 12:42 PM, Thane wrote:

over turf and a little kid rides up to a dealer on a bicycle, pulls a gun and shoots the drug dealer. If you are a cop and anybody points a gun at you, you shoot him, not first check his age.
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On Friday, November 28, 2014 12:42:54 PM UTC-5, Thane wrote:

No one said it was. First problem is that the cop who shot him had a couple of seconds to try to guess the perp's age. You good at ascertaining the age fr a moving suspect, whether the gun is real or not and their intent?
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On 11/28/2014 12:42 PM, Thane wrote:

would your reaction be? How were the police to determine in a split second if it was a toy or if they would be shot? You have a half second to determine it you are going to live or die. What is your decision?
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On Friday, November 28, 2014 4:10:38 PM UTC-6, Ed Pawlowski wrote:

Why doesn't the kid have the right to shoot the cops who pointed their gun at him? Doesn't the kid have the right to protect his own life?
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On 11/30/2014 1:25 PM, Davej wrote:

So you are saying it is OK to kill a cop in a shootout?
If you obey the commands of the cop and do not appear to be threatening, you are protecting your life.
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There have been instances were the orange band was properly displayed and LEO have shot anyway. In that case the justification was that the kid didn't look like a kid.
My kids and gran kids know how to use and respect guns. We have no toy guns in our house. Too easy for accidents to happen.
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On Fri, 28 Nov 2014 07:24:04 -0800 (PST), trader_4

The cops "tactics" were incredibly stupid. A mere 1.5 seconds from when they rolled up till they plugged the kid with a toy gun. There idiotic tactics will be ignored and they will suffer no punishment for killing a 12 year old. If some citizen with a legal firearm had done exactly what the cops did, knowing nothing more then the cops did at the time, what would have happened to that citizen? We all know with 100% certainty he'd have been locked up immediately and charged with manslaughter at the very least for doing something so stupid as to zoom up to within 20 feet of someone reported to be "20 year old black man with gun", jump out of their car with gun drawn and within 1.5 seconds killing the "20 year old black man with gun" who had not even pointed it at them. But this was cops so it's open season on mere citizens.
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On Friday, November 28, 2014 1:47:42 PM UTC-8, Ashton Crusher wrote:

So you are facing someone you know is armed and see him pulling a gun. How long are YOU going to wait to shoot? Or are you one of those that think a cop shouldn't shoot at all until the opponent has fired one shot?
Harry K
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On Fri, 28 Nov 2014 10:46:06 -0800 (PST), trader_4

He only had "a couple seconds" because they stupidly zoomed up to 20 feet away in their car, leaped out, spent 1 second yelling "drop the gun" or whatever, and 0.5 seconds killing the kid for not complying. Most likely all this while the cars engine was running and the kid no even able to tell what the cop was saying. A citizen who acted as stupid as these cops did would be convicted of manslaughter.
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On Friday, November 28, 2014 4:49:57 PM UTC-5, Ashton Crusher wrote:

Prove that please. So far, we don't even know exactly what the two cops saw, what they knew, what they were intending to do. And from the video, if the kid had stayed at the gazebo instead of moving *toward* the police car, the outcome would likely have been very different.
Also factor in that a civilian it's not tasked with responding to calls with guys pointing guns at people in public. Police are.
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