OT: Volkswagen

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I'm *really* at a loss for how this sort of thing can happen. I mean, every car you make with this "hack" in it is a potential WITNESS for the prosecution -- IN PERPETUITY! It's not like you can make all evidence of the hack "disappear" once the vehicle has left your factory!
I can see how incredibly EASY it would be to write software to notice the (typical) "testing in progress" conditions and "play nice" only during those times -- throwing the rules out the window at all other times!
But, I can't imagine anyone with half a brain thinking this is the sort of thing they could get away with!
I can *almost* believe the GM ignition switch scandal was just incompetence and "wishful thinking" (maybe it WON'T be a problem?? Maybe no one will notice it? We can always claim we are INCOMPETENT... etc.). But, the VW issue is akin to a burglar robbing a bank -- there's no question as to the IL-legality of his actions!
The unfortunate consequence of all this is it will just be a fine. If a human commits a crime, he goes to jail. If a BUSINESS ("Corporations are people, too" -- Mitt Romney) commits one, they get a fine/wrist slap.
(Perhaps we should revoke their business license for a few years to inflict the equivalent of "imprisonment" on them -- deny them the FREEDOM to operate as they normally could? Of course, that would effectively kill many businesses -- just like incarceration kills many families, etc.!)
The same sort of stupidity appears evident in the Feenigs I-10 shooting incidents: if you've really committed these crimes, why would you give up control of the single most incriminating piece of evidence -- the actual gun, used?? Just for *money*??
Are people REALLY this stupid? Short sighted?? *Or*, ARROGANT?? (they're not smart enough to catch *me*!)
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On Wednesday, September 23, 2015 at 1:03:56 PM UTC-4, Don Y wrote:

All your credibility went out the window when you dragged Romney into this. I mean, WTF? Nobody accused Romney of committing corporate fraud and he has nothing whatever to do with VW.

Apparently you're stupid enough to drag Romney into this, so yes, I guess that level of stupidity does exist.
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On 9/23/2015 10:12 AM, trader_4 wrote:

Dear Moron, Rather than take the time to explain the legal standing that corporation status confers on an entity in the US, I opted to pick a WELL KNOWN event that folks *should* be able to recognize/remember to "jog their memories".
Please indicate where my comments accuse Romney of *anything* other than making the "Corporations are people, too". Or, do you have a problem with reading comprehension??
You, unfortunately, are an obvious partisan and consider all comments in that context. So, as such, disqualify yourself from any meaningful conversations.
So, I guess you ARE right in your comment, below: "that level of stupidity does exist" -- YOU deal with it each day when you look at yourself in the mirror!
*plonk*

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On Wednesday, September 23, 2015 at 1:24:10 PM UTC-4, Don Y wrote:

Sure that's a great substitute for explaining the legal standing of corporations. Besides, the Romney reference still makes no sense, because if corporations were people, then they would go to jail. So how again is Romney clarifying anything? Not that it needs clarifying at all, because so far I don't see anything that shows people are confused or don't understand what a corporation is about.

Yeah, YOU dragged Romney into this, but I'm the partisan. WTF? Also, the whole premise has no merit, sure you can't put a corporation in jail, Duh..., but execs can and have been sentenced and have served time.

It sure does, you've demonstrated it. This does too:
"(Perhaps we should revoke their business license for a few years to inflict the equivalent of "imprisonment" on them -- deny them the FREEDOM to operate as they normally could?"
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On 9/23/2015 10:52 AM, trader_4 wrote:

I've anticipated the discrimination that folks would apply to corporations vs. "people" -- and sought to remove it from the issue. I.e., if corporations ARE "people" (in Romney's simplistic explanation to the Electorate), then folks should be able to explain why THOSE "people" should be treated differently from other *real* "people".

I cited a well known public personna's RECENT public comment I know many other people who have uttered the same thing -- but suspect no one here would know "my Uncle Fred" or "my local barber", etc.

Of course you can put a corporation in jail! You can restrict its freedom! Or, do you assume "jail" has to be a physical building with tangible, corporeal occupants?

This is the direct analogy of taking away an *individual's* freedom as punishment for a crime. If fining a corporation is acceptable, why aren't all crimes involving humans resolved with fines??
If The Corporation is guilty of the crime, then why shouldn't The Corporation be held responsible? Or, are you advocating that the punishment for any crime committed by a corporation should be uniformly inflicted on the corporation's CEO? Unless he/she can find someone else "more directly culpable"?
The Corporation is a legal entity. "Corporations are people, too" Why shouldn't the corporation incur the same sorts of penalties that an individual incurs?
If you are willing to incarcerate a PERSON for a year for a particular crime, should you deprive a corporation of one year's worth of REVENUES for that same crime? Or, perhaps prohibit it from doing *business* for one year?
Ah, but that could put the corporation out of business! Just like incarcerating the bread winner in a family could inflict harm on other "innocent parties" -- spouse, children, etc.
What's the difference? Besides an ARBITRARY one??
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On 9/23/2015 1:24 PM, Don Y wrote:

Same reason I gave a sarcastic answer.
You could have named the president of GM.
Lately hearing why Argentina is no longer a prosperous nation. Too much of corporations and government getting in bed with each other.
It's happening here.
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On 9/23/2015 10:52 AM, Frank wrote:

No one would have recognized/attributed the comment to anyone other than Romney.

Power seeks power. We inherently associate with those "like us". I'll wager your house isn't the most expensive nor least expensive in your neighborhood. I'll also guess you're not a "Professional" living in a neighborhood full of "Laborers" -- or vice versa.
Organizations that control significant assets (monies, resources, markets, etc.) *tend* to look to other such organizations as their "peers".

Some seem to think The Private Sector is the answer to all problems! They tend to forget the colossal f*ckups that The Private Sector has inflicted on us. (but, that's OK -- cuz The Market will "fix" those problems"; any collateral damage is "simply unfortunate"... cost of doing business!)
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On Wed, 23 Sep 2015 10:12:01 -0700 (PDT), trader_4

If you got such an inference from that statement you're fucked up. But we already knew that. Go soak your head, asshole.
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On 9/23/2015 1:04 PM, Don Y wrote:

If so, the EPA would have not discovered this.
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If you purchase bushel of apples you always will fine one that is rotten or stupid. "we just did."
"Frank" wrote in message
On 9/23/2015 1:04 PM, Don Y wrote:

If so, the EPA would have not discovered this.
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On 9/23/2015 12:37 PM, Frank wrote:

Since there is no "Democrat Party" in the US, you've just shown the world you don't even know your own country's politics. Congratulations on having made it through sixth grade.
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On 9/23/2015 10:37 AM, Frank wrote:

Given that there is no such party, that's unlikely.
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On 9/23/2015 5:41 PM, sms wrote:

You know damned well what he meant but yet you took the time to criticize. Nice. Makes your mother proud.
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On Wed, 23 Sep 2015 10:04:16 -0700, Don Y

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On Wed, 23 Sep 2015 10:04:16 -0700, Don Y

These are the same people who thought invading Russia was a good idea.
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On 9/23/2015 10:45 AM, snipped-for-privacy@aol.com wrote:

Yeah, I guess they hoped for a similar "short term victory, but eventual defeat!" :-/
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On 09/23/2015 12:04 PM, Don Y wrote:

<snip>
They of course should not have done it...and are getting a huge fine.
They will recover but when the stock bottoms out...it will be a good time for investors to buy.
That's the way business works.
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philo wrote:

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Uncle Monster posted for all of us...

--------------------------------------------------------- Because Google Groups users can't seem to set their word wrap... This message has been cleaned by MessageCleaner.exe v2.17

I am somewhat surprised they went after gov't motors ignition switches as much as they did.
Of course this is a different cabel of the gov't. VW should ask how much it's gonna cost to clean up the river they bleeped up. It doesn't matter because WE are the ones paying for it.
--
Tekkie

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On 9/23/2015 1:04 PM, Don Y wrote:

I can see where GM did not know about the problem until it showed up a couple of times. After that, they were deceitful, cheap, and stupid.

I vote for stupid. He may have thought pawning the gun was his protection. No one would ever find it one out of his possession. Police would never find it.
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