OT: Voices from OWS

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http://www.nydailynews.com/ny_local/occupy_wall_street/2011/10/26/2011-10-26_occupy_wall_street_voices_from_zuccotti_park_marsha_spencer_56.html
Odd. She doesn't sound like a kook. Or a kid. Doesn't want to rob people, overthrow the government, or any of that. Seems like a normal 56 year old woman to me.
Same as this 33 year old guy: http://www.nydailynews.com/ny_local/occupy_wall_street/2011/10/21/2011-10-21_occupy_wall_street_voices_from_zuccotti_park_jonathan_smucker_33.html
A 23 year old girl that wants the Fed shut down: http://www.nydailynews.com/ny_local/2011/10/08/2011-10-08_voices_from_zuccotti_park_danielle_digirolamo_23.html
This 55 year old guy isn't buying any of the debunked "demands list" that Fox News is still trying to spread. http://www.nydailynews.com/ny_local/2011/10/07/2011-10-07_voices_from_zuccotti_park_david_everittcarlson_55.html
Maybe there is hope.
R
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I feel that the Supreme Court ruling letting corporations spend unlimited amounts on elections is the end of our chance for that. Most people are swayed by attack commercials and regular folks won't have the ability to counter those attacks.
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The same allows unions to spend unlimited, too. If you look at the actual money being spent, unions are actually the biggest in aggregate. Direct contributions to candidates, the first was ATT (long before the merger). The next 6 were unions (lead interestingly enough by the government workers union), then the Chamber and the rest were unions. (According to reports to the fed election officials).
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If you look at the actual money spent by corporations you will find the majority was going to Democrats until 2010 and is almost even now. That's not the case with unions though, they still predominately send their money to the Democrats. This crap about all the Corporations supporting only Republicans is just that, a bunch of crap.

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On Thu, 27 Oct 2011 07:54:33 -0700 (PDT), BobR

Even if true, even if both sides get equal amounts they are not interested in electing people who are interested in the "little guy". If "we" continue to allow unlimited big money to flow to both sides we will continue to get only dems AND repubs that are beholden to big business since any "little guy" that doesn't support big business interests won't get much money and will rarely win elections. Simply put, BIG MONEY needs to be removed from politics, it's corrosive.
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Ashton Crusher wrote:

Politicians need two things to get elected: money and votes.
You provide the votes, corporations and unions provide the money. It averages out.
Unless you want to give corporations votes, or give up yours, it's not fair to complain about the balance of terror.
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And yet every time, from the original attempts follow Nixon clear through to today, every time Congress tries to limit flow of money, the Supremes (of various flavors) keep invoking that pesky first amendment thingy.
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What does a lefty, like Crushed Asshat, care about the Constitution?
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The Supreme Court only evened the playing field that had previously allowed Unions and other organizations unlimited spending while infringing on the freedom of speech of Corporations to do the same.
The problem with most Democrats is their constant assumption that everyone is too stupid to make an informed vote and is swayed by all their attack commercials. Sorry, but I think its time to give the population a little bit of credit inspite of their total failure to use common sense when they elected OBAMA. They actually seem to be more swayed by fast talking con men that so called attack commercials.
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I'm not sure if you're saying that her one vote turned the election, or that she shouldn't have voted. What are you saying?
Personally I think it's dandy that people want to gt involved...in anything. Anything at all. It's better than sitting around bitching about things and doing nothing about them.

Okay, still not sure what you're saying. If I were to guess, I'd say you're either saying "he didn't vote, so he should shut up" or "he voted for Obama, so he should shut up."
Isn't the important thing that someone votes? Isn't it a good thing if someone actually cares enough to take the time on one day every couple or four years to vote?

You agree with a 23 year old obviously liberal hemp advocate. Okay, now we're getting somewhere! ;)

Agreed. Obama's campaign was a reaction to Bush, as was his election. I don't think the President is solely responsible for all problems. He doesn't single-handedly run the government.

It's not just attack ads. It's any ads. The deep pockets will win, the marketing slicks will win, and everybody else will lose.

Ummm, one kid brings a knife to school, so you're suggesting that everyone give their kid a knife? Is that what you're proposing? Spread the bad idea around equally?

The general population seems to have done a dandy job in ignoring McDonalds' ads and refusing to buy into obesity and diabetes. You're paying for that.
You're also paying for the bad policies that pretty boy/girl politics and slick marketing create.
You seem to be saying that RJ Reynolds should have the freedom to promote people killing themselves by marketing it as "cool", as long as you don't have to pay for the consequences. A reasonable stance...if you can figure out how to go back in time about a hundred years before life as we know existed. Unfortunately, or fortunately, we can't, so we have an opportunity to fix things.
Isn't that what this newsgroup is about - fixing things? Sitting around bitching about a leaky faucet never got it fixed.
R
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On Thu, 27 Oct 2011 07:36:24 -0700 (PDT), BobR

It's not a question of common sense. When the "common people" are bombarded with professionally prepared political ads that are nothing but lies aimed at manipulating them their "common sense" will not be particularly useful. These ads are specifically designed to appeal to "common sense", they are prepared by professionals who run focus groups to hone in on exactly what phrases "work" to fool everyone. History shows that attack commercials WORK. And keep in mind that, IMHO, the vast majority of people will NOT spend the time to check out anything they are told to see if it's true. I have had conversation after conversation with average people where I find that they believe what they saw in an ad even when the truth is clearly not what was said in the ad. People are incredibly easy to manipulate and almost none of them bother checking out anything.
Do you believe that congressmen get full salary for life after serving only one term? If so, you have been fooled by all the bogus stuff passed around. Congressmen are in exactly the same retirement system as a forest ranger.
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Ashton Crusher wrote:

But if they DID get full salary for life after serving one term, it might encourage them to quit rather than run for re-election (and perhaps become forest rangers).
If they did quit after one term, some think we'd be better off.
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Most people seem to believe what they want to believe rather fact or not. There is the real problem, they believe without verification and thus become the dupes of others. I have a hard time feeling sorry for them since it is of their own doing. The real problem is when too many believe too many lies and end up voting in a moron who just loves to make it his sworn duty to enslave them all before they wise up.
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dgk wrote:

The solution for "bad" speech is not "less" speech. The solution is MORE speech.
One politician's goal of rasing - and spending - $1 billion in next year's presidental contest is still chicken-feed compared to what is spent on potato chips ($7.1 billion).
You can think of political money as "stimulus" money. It is spent on TV (writing, producing, filming, buying time, etc.), printing brochures and bumper stickers, yard signs, billboards, push cards, luches for the poll workers, telephones, office space, etc. No major candidate takes the money and puts it in a mattress; it's used to provide jobs.
No, there are too many restrictions on political money. I like George Will's three proposed rules:
1. No cash 2. No foreign money 3. Instant disclosure of the source
If our campaign finance laws were that simple, everybody would come out ahead.
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wrote:

Most large corporations are multinational in scope. If they can improve their bottom line by screwing America, they do it. For instance, sending our jobs overseas because they can make more money. So they can still spend all they want on an election because they're chartered in some US state?
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This is an major conceit on the part of Americans. That we somehow own these jobs. These are not our jobs.
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Strange that he sees using overseas workers as screwing America. I just see it as economics 101. If you can get the same or better work done overseas, then you do it because it makes you more money. And if you don't do it, your competitors will and they will be able to offer lower cost products, costing you business.
Wonder if he sees it as screwing America when he buys a product made in China?
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On 10/28/11 10:44 am, snipped-for-privacy@optonline.net wrote:

For so many products there is no longer a "made in the USA" option. Much (most?) famous-name US-brand electronic equipment is now made in China, Malaysia, Thailand. Much famous-brand clothing is made in even-poorer countries, such as Bangladesh or Vietnam.
Our Chrysler car was built in Canada. I have seen Toyotas being built in Georgetown, KY.
Perce
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thing and send those jobs back to Japan (grin)
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Because people in this country made it totally and perfectly clear that they didn't care where those electronics were made, they were only interested in the lowest price.

I bought only US made US name plate cars until the late 90's when I realized that I was getting screwed on quality, price, and reliability. My last two cars were an Accura and a Honda. Both manufactured in the US and both of far superior quality to what I had ever gotten from the 3 us manufacturers. Honda will definately see my business a couple of more times before I quit buying new cars. (Only a couple because they last so long that I won't need more.)

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