OT two people in the cockpit

[micky]

OT European airlines are rapidly switching to having 2 people in the cockpit at all times, as the US has done since 9/11 or maybe earlier.

But what does that mean? Sometimes there is a deadheading pilot on board who could be the second person, each time the pilot or co-pilot goes to the head, but often there is no such person.

Most flight attendants are stewardesses. Say she's in the cockpit with the co-pilot. One cross (punch) by the man will knock the woman out cold. He can tie her up or throw her back in the cabin and lock the door like on Monday.

On the radio I heard from someone who should know that counting this week and Egyptian Air, this is the 8th example of an intentional crash by a commercial passenger pilot, most or all of the others before 9/11, beforethe cockpit door was locked. I wonder, how many of them had two people in the cockpit and how did the killer overpower the other one?

But it's nice to see Europeans imitating America.

[bob haller]

If a pilot somehow got involved with ISIS and they started crashing airliners, the airline industry as we know it will end.....

[Art Todesco]

Unfortunately the "airline industry as we know it" has ended many, many years ago!

[trader_4]

You will report to the re-education camp on April 1. It is politically incorrect today to suggest that women cannot do the same jobs as men. I guess we could make sure they weigh 200lbs and take karate lessons.

Regarding the other murder crashes I know of only one where more than one pilot was in the cockpit. That was back in the

70s I believe, when a nutty former airline employee was on board with the intent of killing an airline exec who also happened to be on board. He killed him, then killed the pilots. But I'm only familiar with a couple of them, didn't know there was a total of 8.

[Stormin Mormon]

they started crashing airliners, the airline industry as we know it will end.....

Who would ever get on airliner, after that?

- . Christopher A. Young learn more about Jesus .

. .

[trader_4]

Probably 99% of us who fly now. It wouldn't be the first terrorist attack that brought down a plane, or three.

[KenK]

micky wrote in news: [e-mail]:

What about bus drivers - city, school, long distance, etc. Kill some 60 or

70 or whatever they hold people with one high-speed head-on collision? Gonna put in a co-driver?

I think it's hopeless. If someone wants to kill a bunch of people they'll find a way. Lots of possibilities.

[(PeteCresswell)]

Per KenK:

I like what Philip Mudd (bigwig in the CIA, Director of Something-Or-Other MidEastern for the White House, Deputy Director of FBI's National Security Branch...) said last year in connection with the Boston Marathon Bombings:

"America is not the land of the safe. America is the land of the free and the home of the brave." and "We're going to grieve, then we're going to sweep up the glass and move on and that's it."

Sounds jingoistic as hell, but I like it: accept some risk and don't let those assholes undermine what we are.

[Phil Kangas]

A law cannot prevent any human behavior.

[Seymore4Head]

But, wouldn't it make more sense to quit importing people with no loyalty to this country?

[Kurt Ullman]

There are things that can be done that have limited expense and aren't all that hard to implement that can have a bunch of difference in certain circumstances. The trick is not assume that all changes for work for all things. The second person in the cockpit costs nothing and uses resources already there. While it probably won't stop all, it will certainly have the ability to stop some. The person may be less likely to run the plane into the ground just because even a female can make it harder for him to accomplish his objective. They can fight the person and open the door from the inside. They can lean over and flip the switch in the cockpit that locks out the keypad on the other side. Probably a few other scenarios that I haven't thought about at no cost or added problems.

[Seymore4Head]

That scenario also adds one more person to the cockpit that may want to take down the plane.

[Kurt Ullman]

There are normally two (sometimes even three) people in the cockpit. Why would a flight attendant be any more likely to want to take a plane down than a pilot? Under your scenario maybe NOBODY should be in the cockpit. But then you'd have to worry about the person who is flying it from a base somewhere or maybe the guy who programs the flight computer.

[Phil Kangas]

Even if everything is declared legal, it still would have no affect whatsoever on human behavior. All penalties are after the fact of human behavior.

[clare]

Virtually EVERY commercial flight I have been on has had more than one male "flight attendant". Some of these guys are licenced pilots who don't have a job as a commercial pilot and love to fly, and some of them look like they could be body-builders or bouncers.

[Ashton Crusher]

We need more laws so this kind of stuff can't happen.

[clare]

The second person in the cockpit is not just to prevent the pilot from committing mass murder. It is a precaution in case the PIC suffers a heart attack, stroke, or other issue that puts him out of commission.. Flight crew are all trained in the use of the radio - even if they are not licenced radio operators, and they can summon help if required. There have been several instances of an aiplane being landed by "remote control" by non-pilots, with input from a ground-based pilot/trainer over the radio.. Some almost flawless landings, and some hairy but safe ones.

Several cases where a passenger filled in for the "second seat" on commercial airliners as well - but there was either pilot or copilot in "first seat"

[Ashton Crusher]

On a probability basis there is no logic at all to what you say. Probabilistically the second person if far more likely to NOT want to die. Extending that out, the best way to prevent this from happening in the future is for everyone in the plane to ride in the cockpit.......

[Ashton Crusher]

The trouble is, not only are the assholes undermining us, so are our representatives.

[clare]

Even without "legal retribution" many acts are punished by nature. Stupid is eventually self limitting.