OT: TSA vs us: Will Americans resist or wimp out?

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On 11/21/2010 10:34 AM, The Daring Dufas wrote:

Agreed- it was a common-sense step that should have been taken when the hijacking fad started back in late 60s? -early 70s?. Tough part would have been finding pilots (and their corporate masters) that were willing to consider the pax expendable. But that is the ONLY way you can play it- X hundred in the plane versus Y thousands on the ground. And we have definitely seen the last of 'sit quietly and don't cause trouble' advice for passengers. Now it is 'take the SOB down any way you can', and at some point an innocent person having a diabetic reaction or drunk or whatever is gonna end up dead because their intentions were misunderstood.
Having said that, I'd sure hate to be the AF or Navy alert pilot that got orders to shoot down a loaded jetliner. How the hell does anyone live with that?
--
aem sends...

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On 11/21/2010 12:11 PM, aemeijers wrote:

I know from history that fighter pilots from the former Soviet Union and China have had no problem shooting down passenger planes. I know pilots from NATO and the American military would have a really hard time doing the same. I read an interesting story about some Israeli military pilots who were disciplined for refusing to fire on civilians, even when they knew it could cost them their jobs. Most soldiers of any army are reluctant to fire on defenseless people although there are always going to be horrible atrocities during any armed conflict.
Sky marshals have already murdered a mentally ill man who panicked and ran off a plane with his wife screaming to them that he was sick. The official story proffered by the government was that the mental patient claimed to have a bomb. There is that one thing that law enforcement personnel have in common with politicians when they screw up, it's a three letter word beginning with an "L" and ending with an "e". 8-) I read somewhere that there are more mentally ill people than there are terrorists but most terrorists are crazy.
TDD
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Just say NO. Don't fly.
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Kurt Ullman wrote:

Italians are loved more than Americans. They make great food, we make war.
--

dadiOH
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wrote:

Was it necessary to do THIS?
Here's a video of the TSA groping a 3 year old little boy:
http://www.kdvr.com/news/ktla-boy-tsa-pat-down,0,5005961.story
Yep, obviously one of al-Qaeda's most sinister operatives there.
-- Steven L.
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wrote:

Seemed to be pretty benign.
Jim
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On Wed, 24 Nov 2010 00:54:09 +0000, "Steven L."

No one is even a teeny tiny bit safer. It's all for show and to keep the sheeple afraid of their own shadow. You could save a lot more American lives by confiscating the car of anyone caught driving drunk or driving under suspension.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q3yaqq9Jjb4&feature=player_embedded

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From the standpoint of the bureaucracy, yeah. The "argument" would be that if we did not all the Nasties would have to do is to blow us up would be to strap the bomb to some little kid. Also, as I mentioned above, it is much easier and safer to stick with the absolute letter of the letter than to exercise any judgement,run afoul of the one in a million time, and then be hung out to dry by grandstanding Congresscritters and media.
--
"Even I realized that money was to politicians what the ecalyptus tree is to
koala bears: food, water, shelter and something to crap on."
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<stuff snipped>

It's why DC, with one of the nation's strictest gun laws, is a murder by gun world capital. You have to plug ALL the holes to make something secure.
I believe, though, that officials are most concerned with US originating flights because they will be carrying much more fuel at the beginning of their trip than a Rome flight coming in from abroad.
I've read/seen some professionals say it was the fire from the jet fuel that brought the WTC towers down and that's credible since both towers did survive the initial impacts.
-- Bobby G.
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On 11/20/2010 9:10 PM, David Nebenzahl wrote:

Sure, but clearly you are a left leaning guy and it is your guys intense need for political correctness which is at the root of the problem. Profiling works. If you are a white or black nun, white or black 3 year old, Swedish looking etc you should get a casual glance. If you look like someone who has proclaimed we should all be dead you get asked a lot more questions the same way the the Israelis do screening.
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Exactly. Instead of randomly selecting passengers for extra screening, we should be doing profiling, looking at the common traits the terrorists have, and selecting those passengers for the extra scrutiny. Exactly what Israel has been successfully doing. Instead, I watched a representative from CARE, the American Muslim organization on TV the other night, saying how CARE is working with the TSA so that Muslim women will be allowed to "self-screen" their burkas, head and neck coverings. The same TSA is considering charges against the white guy in San Diego who refused the scan and pat down. Unbelievable insanity.
The whole body scan thing is pretty much a joke. I'd like to know what percentage of passengers the TSA plans to ultimatley use these on. My guess is that at most, it would be a few percent. That does virutally nothing to enhance security. Send out 10 terrorists with underwear bombs simulataneously and 9 out of 10 will get through, surely more than enough probablility of success so as to not deter them.
I watched the head of the TSA, who, IMO, is an idiot on TV. He was asked if the new body scanners would have caught a guy like the underwear bomber. His answer was just evasive nonsense that never answered the real question. I expected something along the lines of, "We've done extensive testing and from the results we believe it highly likely the body scanners would have resulted in detection. That's why we're deploying them" Even if it were not entirely true, you would think he'd want to convey that message to help deter terrorists from trying. And then factor in that we're doing this in the USA, while a terrorist is free to choose his country of departure.
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<stuff snipped>
<The whole body scan thing is pretty much a joke. I'd like to know what percentage of passengers the TSA plans to ultimatley use these on. My guess is that at most, it would be a few percent. That does virutally nothing to enhance security. Send out 10 terrorists with underwear bombs simulataneously and 9 out of 10 will get through, surely more than enough probablility of success so as to not deter them.>
Know why they make you spread your legs and hold your hands up in the scanners? Because they are hoping the plastic explosives that they can't reliably detect tucked in your armpit or crotch will swing free or fall out. Security Theater. Act II. Now we will see the advent of the edible bomb. If you can smuggle a kilo of coke in stomach balloons, how hard could a kilo of plastic be to swallow for the right zealot? It seems to me the lone kooks are attacking planes now. Al Q & Co. is probably hard at work, trying to outdo 9/11/01 by 9/11/11 - they love their anniversaries, that's one thing we know about them for sure.
-- Bobby G.
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Well shouldnt the airlines or the feds arrange a refund for anyone who doesnt wantn to fly now under the new groping rules? who bought their ticket before the new rules became effective......
news said if you fail scan but refuse groping you can be proscuted.you cant refuse groping.
what we need are a crash of ticket sales like off 20% and this rule will get revised.
someone could swallow a bomb, or carry a noxious disease on board
or terrorists could just carry some SAMs surface to air missles over the mexican boarder and shoot down a few airliners across our country....
thus ending flying as we know it.
some police tell me the TSA pat downs go far beyond what they are allowed to do as a arresting officer or to prisoners in jail.....
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On 11/21/2010 10:58 AM, snipped-for-privacy@aol.com wrote:

I read something a few years back about a Muslim woman caught with a vial of a biological weapons agent hidden in her vagina. I'm also reminded of a science fiction story I read years ago where those who were rebelling against the government were having bombs surgically implanted in their bodies. The first time one is caught doing that, to attack any country, it's going to be full X-rays for everyone in order to travel.
TDD
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George wrote:

I happen to be a conservative - not a current type conservative, more a days of yore one - and IMO political correctness has nothing to do with it and the US pater familias, "my way or the highway" attitude of the last few decades has everything to do with it.
--

dadiOH
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wrote:

You are an America hating fruitcake at best. I think the only way you should get through airport security is after a complete autopsy.
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On 11/22/2010 8:24 AM, snipped-for-privacy@smallboots.com wrote:

Actually I only dislike your version of America. That is the (current) one where we need to be weak and make sure we never offend those who want to hurt us...
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wrote:

You hate America, and everything it stands for. It is you who is the hand wringing, overwrought, weepy, Oprah-fied weakling.
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Here's what I'd do if I were a TSA groper:
Anyone who looked muslim, I'd slap them upside the head about 52 times. Then I'd grab their crotch and laugh while yelling, how small their junk is. Then I'd grab a pork chop and force them to eat it while whipping them with a used tampon. Finally, I'd have them thrown out of the airport and put on the no fly list permanently.
The muslim women, I'd tear off their stupid gown sheets and make them wear a bathing suit. I'd have to change into my lesbian outfit, first, so I could grope them,too.
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Joe Carthy wrote:

That's way over the top. Pork chops are expensive; SPAM should work as well.
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