(OT) Trusting Banks

[Paintedcow]

Since we have the Credit Card topic on here, I was thinking about a situation I had awhile back.

When I began getting my Social Security, I learned that they no longer send checks. The money MUST be sent directly to a bank. Although I already had a checking account, I wanted to go with a different bank, which had more benefits for seniors.

I opened an account at the other bank, and I was given a debit card along with my checking. At first I thought it would come in handy, and save on checks, but I quickly found it made balancing my checkbook very confusing, so I stopped using it except for emergencies (like to buy gas when I did not have any cash or my checkbook with me). One day I went to get gas, and they could not read that card. They even showed me that the magnetic strip was worn off part of the card. Luckily the gas station was local and they know me, so they just told me to come back later to pay.

Anyhow, I took that defective debit card to my bank and told them it was worn out. The clerk said they would get me a new card, and it would be mailed to me in about a week. But she said that the new card needs to be programmed with my PIN number, so I had to give her my PIN. I felt very uncomfortable with this, and as nicely as I could, I told her so. After all, even though she works for the bank, does not mean she could not tamper with my account.

She said that if I dont want to give it out, she could not process this new card, but I can give her another PIN number, which will then be my "NEW" PIN, but I can change it as soon as I receive the card. So, I made up a new PIN and gave her that number, and wrote it down so I would remember it.

When the new card came, it had a label telling me to call an 800 number or take it to an ATM to verify (or whatever word they used), that card. I took it to the ATM at my own bank, inserted the card, and punched in my ORIGINAL PIN. The card worked fine.

I now wonder why I even provided that "other" PIN. It was not needed. In a way, I was glad, because I had no clue how to go about changing the PIN. While I want to be able to trust the employees at my bank, I really dont trust anyone. I now question this even more, since there seemed to be no need for giving that clerk my PIN.

I became so concerned about this, that I was going to try to learn how to change the PIN, but that was when I found out that I did not even need to have a debit card to get my Social Security put into my account, and a basic checking account is all I need. So, I took that card back to the bank, cut it in half, and told them to cancel it, but not cancel the checking, just cancel the debit card.

I have since found a better way to deal with emergencies. I just keep a few blank checks hidden in my vehicle. That way if I dont have cash, and forget my checkbook, I still have those checks.

I guess this bank just automatically gives everyone a debit card when they open a checking account, and I could have declined it right away, had I known. I dont want any credit or debit cards, and now that my blank checks will be free, I wont have to worry about using too many checks.....

[philo]

That is a crock of bull and I would have asked for a manager.

Bank customer service can be quite bad.

[Paintedcow]

Thats why I asked this question. I did not think it was right, but giving her any "other" number did not bother me, since it was not my REAL PIN. You're right about asking for a manager. I should have done that, but it's history now that the card is gone.

Although I had not been at that bank real long, this clerk was apparently new, because I had not seen her there before. That alone was one reason I refused to give out my PIN. I dont know if this clerk even works there anymore. I have not seen her, but I go to the bank very seldom, and most of the time I use the drive-thru, which has different clerks.

[philo]

One time my savings account got hacked. $5 was taken out and I went right to the bank. The customer care representative told me she did not have the proper papers to fill out and that I had to go home and they'd mail them to me.

Like an idiot I left.

At home, I started thinking about it and after going to their website saw I could download and print out the papers she told me I needed.

I got pissed off and went back...she was not there but someone else helped me. Turned out she was going to have me fill out a "dispute" form which would have been incorrect since this was fraud.

It was taken care of in a few minutes. The charge was reversed and I was given a whole new account.

[gfretwell]

They should have had you enter your current PIN on the key pad so they don't see it and the computer handles the rest. I am actually getting away from debit cards. I use a credit card that is on auto pay so I never see a fee and it has more consumer protection than a debit card.

[Ed Pawlowski]

By law, credit cards offer a bit more protection. In reality, many debit cards offer the same exact protection.

Given the amount of fraud, I try to use cash for anything under $100 so there is no chance of skimming or having info lost.

[bobm3]

Speaking from the actual programming side of ATM/Credit/Debit cards, when you receive your new card typically you simply insert it into a nearby ATM, doesn't even have to be your banks - but doing so makes sense, then use your existing pin and perform a balance inquiry. Once complete the embedded offset recorded on your new car is stored within your account on the banks server(s) and you're good to go next time and beyond.

Its actually quite simple and reliable. Unfortunately its the quality or level of knowledge of the bank staff that is questionable.

Good luck.

[gfretwell]

I have had excellent service from American Express over disputed charges and I did not have to deal with bank dweebs. It was all done via Email They credit me back immediately and if the merchant does not act in 90 days it is a done deal. I had a dispute on a $700 boat seat. I got all my money back and still had the seat. Sold it for $500

[Paintedcow]

Yes, it said I could use ANY ATM, but I chose the one at the bank just because I felt better doing it that way, and there are only a few ATMs on our small town anyhow, so it was just a matter of driving 2 extra blocks to the bank, or using the one at a convenience store. Plus the one at my bank is FREE. But since all I did was get my balance anyhow, I guess there would not have been a fee at the conveniece store anyhow.

Besides the fee at the convenience store, I dont like using that one, because it's located where anyone can watch what I'm doing. The one at the bank is outdoors in their drive-thru, and the bank was closed when I went there so no one was around.

I feel best not having any "plastic" now. With cash, there will never be any overdraft fees, and since there is no debit card attached to my checking acct. I can keep an accurate checking balance.

[Mike Duffy]

!!!!!!!! ********* !!!!!!!!

There is a *different* reason for NOT using the one at the convenience store that trumps, outranks, and superceeds either of the piddly two that you mention.

It is MUCH easier for a fraudster to modify the hardware of the one at the convenience store in order to set it up to steal your account number *and* PIN. With the right tools and equipment (all available on the internet), a crook can do it in less than a minute while someone else distracts the clerk, or simply bribes the clerk who perhaps has set himself up for this particular job deliberately using false employment credentials.

With the bluetooth/cellular module in place, the crooks record all of the info they need to create duplicates of all the cards used in that machine.

Then, all over the country at the appointed hour, a network of crooks use the fake cards to withdraw the daily limits of everyone who used the machine at your convenience store. By the time the bank 'AI' catches on and freezes the cards, most users have had a few days worth of fraudulent withdrawals.

Sure, eventually the banks will give you your money back after you jump through the requisite hoops. They might even end up with clear photos of the smiling gang member using your card which you can post on the wall next to your other dependants.

[trader_4]

Boy, you sure have a lot of problems. There's probably 100 mil debit cards in the USA and people use them, with not that many problems. And most of the problems are from somebody doing something stupid, eg giving their pin to someone else, writing it on the card, etc. I've used debit cards now for several decades and never had a problem.

[Tekkie®]

[e-mail] posted for all of us...

+1 Or just use auto-pay (I'm forgetful)

[Tekkie®]

trader_4 posted for all of us...

I agree T4 Boo hoo to him. Where has he been the last 30 years? My guess back in the barnyard with the sheep.

[Cindy Hamilton]

I don't even keep a checkbook anymore. I write fewer than 6 checks a year. Every routine bill (utilities, for example) is auto-debited from my checking account, and I manually push my credit card payments via the Internet. Once a month I go to the bank's web site, make sure nothing is fishy (all transactions look legit), and I'm done.

It's very convenient.

Cindy Hamilton

[Wade Garrett]

It's really not a good idea to give vendors drafting authority to your checking account. They can draft too much money, draft for a disputed charge, or draft money you don't owe.

For example, I terminated service with Comcast (who I pay from my online checking account) over three months ago, returned all equipment to them on the last day of service, and paid them in full for service through that date.

Yet they're still billing me each month for monthly service (now plus late payment fees) beyond the termination and equipment return date...both of which I have in writing. Despite a half dozen calls to their customer no-service department which included several escalations, they're still billing me.

If they'd had bank account drafting authority, they'd be draining my money and I'd be in a position of having to fight with them and my bank to get my money back.

Friends don't let friends give vendors access to their checking account!

[gfretwell]

I certainly agree with a company as sleazy as Comcast. I let the phone company and power company use my credit card. I am as reluctant as you about bank account access.

[Ed Pawlowski]

That is why I don't use auto-pay. I do pay most bills on line, but I authorize every payment. Only takes a few minutes. I've always made mortgage and car payments on line but I'd often vary the amount extra that I'd pay ahead. Paying extra every month also allowed me to pay off the mortgage years earlier and save thousands in interest.

[Paintedcow]

Earthlink did this same shit to me, with their internet service, years ago. I clearly cancelled my account both by email and written letter. They continued to bill me, even 3 months later, and after I had called, complained, emailed more and sent more letters. I went to my bank, someone from the bank called them, got the same run-around, and got nowhere. I finally told the bank to change my account number.

After that, I got threats mailed to me, and it was eventually sent to a collection agency. The collection agency DID listen to me, and the case was dropped. I filed a complaint with the BBB against Earthlink, and in the process found many more complaints against their company (Earthlink), and a few other names they use. They are a very sleazy company!

I refuse to allow anyone to do auto-pay since then.

[Wade Garrett]

Yeah, back in the day, that's what you had to do.

At least in my state, you couldn't rescind an account-drafting authorization you gave to a vendor. You had to trust them to just quit drafting. I had the same situation and had to close a checking account. Happily, I can't even remember the vendor.

[Mark Lloyd]

[snip]

I used to have cell phone service with a major carrier (NOT Verizon) and canceled it (poor service). They cut off service right away. It took another 3 months to get the billing canceled (multiple phone calls, endless repetitions of the same info, etc...).

[snip]