OT The right thing to do

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At any age that you turn the activity entirely over to the child without them being mentally, physically, or emotionally capable of handling it.
My grandpa gave me .22 rifle when I was eight, and he looked me in the eyes, and said, "This is yours. But until you are old enough, your dad has to take you to shoot it." Dad did. And I took it countless times without Dad knowing.
Putting a kid on a set of skis, on an ATV, on a snowboard, even on a bike involves great risk. Some kids can do things at a very early age. Each parent has to evaluate if the child is ready. But the activity, and the circumstances involved in the child doing the activity entirely out of the control of the parent has to be weighed.
i.e. it's different when a parent takes their child skiing rather than letting the child go alone. Some parents let their children do fireworks alone. And sometimes the kids do it alone on their own. And either way, sometimes things happen.
And shit happens. I'm 61, and a year ago July 4th, I flipped my ATV and broke my back. Been riding motorcycles and ATVs for decades.
Steve
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hr(bob) snipped-for-privacy@att.net wrote:

One should not read too much into the situation, but the idea that bothers me most is that the owner considers the sitter responsible for the dog's behavior....what if the dog runs off or bites a child? Whew! Run, don't walk.
Sounds like the daughter is very responsible. I always had new sitters come over for an interview - casual - and just visit and get familiar. Any concerns about the house, the children, what to do in emergency, etc., were discussed beforehand. That included a dog that would take any opportunity to run off if the door was opened...I and children didn't always notice when someone came to the door that the darn dog was right there, ready to flee :o)
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She's right, but in the long run it's not worth the fight. Don't work for those people.....this is a preview of any future problems with them. Get out while the getting is good. And whoever told her about those people, she should tell the referrer that the people did her wrong.
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Two things happened. One, your daughter left her shoes where the dog could get to them, and the dog got to them. I'd say it was half/half responsibility.
Your daughter should thank them for the work, and not work there again.
A reasonable person would meet her at least half way on replacement. A reasonable person would have warned her about the dog. A reasonable person would have appreciated the fact that she was more concerned about watching the kids and not her shoes. These people don't seem to be reasonable, and next week it's just going to be something different.
Steve
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> Two things happened. One, your daughter left her shoes where the dog could

I agree that the parents should have offered to pay for some/all of the cost of the shoes. And if they *knew* the dog was a chewer, they should have warned her. However, it's possible that they didn't foresee this happening.I have an 8 yr old dog that doesn't (or didn't) bother shoes. About a month ago, I left a closet door open and she chewed a shoe. It's definitely not something I'd expected, but maybe it smelled particularly "good", just as this sneaker might have. It *could* be that the parents really didn't anticipate this so it never occurred to them to warn her. Maybe they didn't anticipate the sitter taking her shoes off; maybe they put their own shoes away. I know people who are sticklers for putting shoes etc away (not me!), and can see where those people probably would think it was her fault for leaving them out and maybe even served her right. Maybe they do the same with their kids, as in "if you had put your toys away, the dog wouldn't have chewed them"). I'm not saying that the parents behavior as described was appropriate, just that in their minds they really might have thought they were reacted normally.
In any case I do also agree that it's probably better for the sitter not to work there again, as they most likely have a different mind set on other things. I think she should mention this to other potential sitters, just so they are prepared. You have to wonder if the reason they keep calling is that previous sitters have also written them off...
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Karen wrote:

Assuming the facts are as you have presented them:
You've gotten some heartfelt suggestions, most along the lines of: a) Chalk up the experience as the cost of doing business, and b) Avoid these parents in the future. Let's look at some similar conditions:
I. You turn over your car keys to the valet ("Valet parking only") only to have your car returned with numerous dents. Is your reasoned response simply to avoid doing future business with the enterprise that wrecked your car?
2. You check your mink coat at the restaurant's door only to have it returned slathered in chicken-fat. Rancid chicken-fat. Do you simply vow not to patronize that restaurant in the future?
3. Change the facts in the instant case just a tad; what if the dog had bitten your daughter instead of the shoes? Would you expect the dog's owners to cover all the medical expenses involved?
I think your daughter has a learning opportunity here, a moment to stand in righteous indignation, to look evil in the eye and beat it back into the dark hole from which it tried to emerge. Suggest to your daughter that she take the following steps:
1. Send a certified letter to the family outlining the facts: a) I was hired to baby sit, b) Your dog destroyed my property, c) I was not warned of the destructive nature of the dog, and therefore, 4) I expect to be reimbursed for the damage. The briefer the letter, the better. Copy to the family making the original referral.
2. Hearing nothing in ten days, trot down to the local small claims court and file a claim. The clerk will walk you through the process. Send copies of all the paperwork to the original referring family.
This is a slam-dunk legal case. The process above will cost the parents far more than the $75. They'll have to pay that, of course, plus all the costs associated with the filing of the claim, plus time off from work if they want to contest to suit. If they fail to pay the judgment, the cost goes up dramatically when the constable visits their office with a "levy and execute" writ and seizes their computers to sell at auction.
A day may come when the courage of men fails - when we forsake our friends and break all bonds of fellowship. But it is not this day.
An hour of woe and shattered shields when the age of men comes crashing down. But it is not this day.
This day we fight.
By all that you hold dear on this good earth, I bid you stand ...
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The same thing can be accomplished by telling the people she won't babysit for them any more, and why. By thanking the friend for the referral, and why, and a caution to the person referring her. By telling other sitters that these people are cheapskates who will probably charge her for the water she drinks while in their house. That won't get the $75 back, but I guarantee it will cost the cheap doctors more than that in the end.
And all done without a shot fired or a bunch of drama. That's what an adult would do, and the lady is really trying to teach the daughter the lessons of how to be an adult, and not a child by running around screaming and making threats and involving other people in the fray.
Steve
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Wrong. The same thing cannot be accomplished because by taking them to small claims court, there is the distinct possibility that she could win and collect her $75. Also win or lose, it will cost the doctors the time to appear in court and if the court finds in the girl's favor, the doctors may learn from it. The girl will also learn from the experience. Is it worth doing? That is up to the girl to decide. It's also very possible that once served with the suit, they may just pay up, not wanting to go to court and appear to be taking advantage of a baby sitter.
I'd say assuming the facts are as stated, she has at least a 50-50 chance of winning.

Who suggested anyone run around screaming and making threats? Also, according the post, the daughter is of college age, not a child.
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snipped-for-privacy@optonline.net wrote in

Just gotta take this one to People's Court :-)
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Wrong. The same thing cannot be accomplished because by taking them to small claims court, there is the distinct possibility that she could win and collect her $75. Also win or lose, it will cost the doctors the time to appear in court and if the court finds in the girl's favor, the doctors may learn from it. The girl will also learn from the experience. Is it worth doing? That is up to the girl to decide. It's also very possible that once served with the suit, they may just pay up, not wanting to go to court and appear to be taking advantage of a baby sitter.
COMMENT: Small court judgements make great toilet paper. You want to give this girl the idea that she has a chance of getting money out of a doctor? She may have a chance of winning, but getting the money is entirely another matter.
TRADER: Who suggested anyone run around screaming and making threats? Also, according the post, the daughter is of college age, not a child.
COMMENT: Sorry, but I snipped it from above in kindness to the readers. Apparently you missed it. My children are 40, 32 and 26. But, they will always be my "children".
Steve
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Nonsense. You think when these doctors go to buy another property, refinance the existing one or have their credit report run they want to find out there is an unpaid judgement recorded against them? Aside from that, as HeyBub pointed out, there are court procedures available to her by which the money can be extracted from their bank accounts or a lien put on their home. It can be impossible to collect a judgement from a deadbeat with no job and no assets. In this case, it would very likely be simply paid on the spot.

Yes, they will. And they will continue to be dependent on you like a child if you keep treating them like one and keep them from useful life experiences, like suing someone in small claims.
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wrote

Nonsense. You think when these doctors go to buy another property, refinance the existing one or have their credit report run they want to find out there is an unpaid judgement recorded against them? Aside from that, as HeyBub pointed out, there are court procedures available to her by which the money can be extracted from their bank accounts or a lien put on their home. It can be impossible to collect a judgement from a deadbeat with no job and no assets. In this case, it would very likely be simply paid on the spot.

Yes, they will. And they will continue to be dependent on you like a child if you keep treating them like one and keep them from useful life experiences, like suing someone in small claims.
Comment: It clearly appears like our opinions differ.
Steve
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On Sat, 23 Jan 2010 10:55:43 -0800, "Steve B"

It's not that hard to enforce a judgment against someone with any money. She knows where they live and what their names are. They probably own their own cars, or at least have 75 dollars of equity in one of them. The marshall or sheriff will seize the entire car and not give it back until they have paid the 75 and costs.
When I sued the body shop, they had already fired the manager who messed me up, and they also didnt' show up, so I won whatever I could prove. Then they didn't pay so I called up and reminded him, nicely, and I got a check 2 weeks later. Otherwise, and I'm not saying this was his reason for paying, but he knew it, I could have had the marshall seize one of their essential body shop machines, like the tow truck. The marshall probably has a big vote on what he seizes, but he has more experience anyhow.

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I am a bit surprised the parents would not make it right. The reason I say that is because the home was her place of employment. Yes, I think the parents should have told her more about the dog's behavior. This is a bit difficult to analyze--do we assume she was dog-sitting too? If the job was called "house-sitting" more blame is put on the sitter because her job was to watch the entire household. Dogs often chew or dig when frustrated or bored, plus you can't assume every dog will behave the same way. I think she learned at lot about this unfortunate experience. I would let her make the decision what she will do about it then support her decision.
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I just bought a new pair of shoes at Walmart for $12.
When there is a dog around, I put my shoes up on a table where the dog can't get them.
I refuse to remove my shoes to go into someone's home. I will wait outside if I am picking someone up there or whatever. I would never ask anyone visiting my home to remove their shoes. (And I would of course never install white carpet.)
"Karen" wrote in message

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Bill wrote:

Hi, You wear shoes in the house? Then what is the difference between your floor and sidewalk? We wear slippers in the house and spares are available for visitors. No one walks into my house wearing shoes!
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"Tony Hwang" wrote

Have fun Bill if you ever visit Japan!

Sensible to me but most folks in this group have never been to Asia. Thats one thing I miss. I had this really nice built in shoe closet in my Cho in Sasebo Japan. Inside I had our regular slippers, and 3 sets tied in pretty ribbon for guests. I dont have space for that here but we still have a small unit by the door, with guest slippers. Small sign above 'feel free to be comfy'. Those used to this idea, find it charming to see in the USA. For me, if i see a shoe holder by the door, I doff my shoes automatically and if there is a stack of rubber bottomed socks or slippers that look new and just for guests, don them while visiting. No words required ;-)
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Whether they knew their dog was a chewer or not, the family is responsible for the damage the dog does, unless they warned your daughter in advance not to leave her things where the dog could get at them.
It has cost your daughter 75 dollars to learn they cannot be trusted to be fair and to accept their responsibilities. She probably also has learned they are not the only ones who treat others shamefully.
If they ask her to sit again, she should politely decline without referring to the incident.
In your place, I would give your daughter the money to replace the shoes. Not because you feel sorry for her, but because she need not be shoeless to have learned the lesson.
I'm assuming your daughter lives at home with you, that she is working and paying at least part of her own way, that she is going to school, she has goals for her life,
I have a teenager. I would give a great deal if mine was like yours.
Ken
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Karen wrote:

Two doctors meaning physicians and they're quibbling over $75.00? What happened? I thought Obamacare didn't pass. If my dog damaged someone's property, I would feel obligated to pay for the damage. It appears from your description that your daughter is a wonderful young woman. Everyone should be so lucky.
TDD
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