OT Technology rant

[Don Y]

New insurance policy. As a matter of course, company runs a "mini" credit report on you. Fine. Nothing to hide.

Having done so, I guess they are obliged to allow you free access to that information (because they used it to make a business decision pertaining to you?).

Call or write. Of course, call is easier.

End up talking to a machine. Well, that's understandable. After all, this is a "routine" request, not requiring any *judgement* on the part of the machine!

"Please say and spell your last name" I do so. "Please say and spell your last name" I do so, again. Ennunciating even more clearly for the stupid machine. "Please say and spell your last name" A bit annoyed, I repeat the exercise -- wondering how many MORE times the stewpit machine will quiz me on this.

"OK, I've saved your response" Hmmm... that sounds ominous. OTOH, maybe it would be too hard for it to try to pronounce the variety of names it likely encounters (mine isn't "Smith" -- nor "Jones"!)

"Please say and spell your first name" Donald. D O N A L D "Great! That's Donald"

"Please enter your birthdate as MM DD YYYY" I do so. "Great! That's yada yada yada"

"Please say and spell your last name" Crap! Not this again! "Please say and spell your last name" I do so, again. "Please say and spell your last name" Jump through the hoop yet one more time...

"OK, I've saved your response" Ah, so that's code for "I don't know what the hell you said!"

"Please say and spell your first name" Wait! Didn't we already *do* this?? Do you think my name has changed in the minute or two since I *last* spelled it for you? Donald. D O N A L D "Great! That's Donald"

"Please enter your 5 digit ZIP code" xxxxx "Great!"

"Please enter your house number" yyyyy "Great!'

"Which insurance company refered you to us?" aaaaaaaa "Great!"

"When the insurance company contacted us, we assigned a 14 digit (!!!) identifier to their request for information concerning you. Do you have that number?" Yes

"Please provide that number" ############## "Great!"

"Do you have a driver's license?" (D'uh! Why would I be looking into car insurance WITHOUT one?) Yes. "Which state issued your license?" kkkkk "What is your driver's license number?" A123... (interrupted) "What is your driver's license number?" A123... (interrupted, yet again) "What is your driver's license number?" A12345678 "OK, I've saved your response" Sure, too stupid to sort out the LETTER in the "number", eh??

"What is your mailing address? ....

This went on for probably 10 minutes (though it sure felt like 15!).

This is the problem with American businesses, nowadays: they cut THEIR costs (i.e., not having a live human being ask me these questions in the course of *one* minute) by pushing those costs (in this case, *time*) onto their customers.

Consider: that 14 digit identifier is big enough to identify each man woman and child (in case any 3-year-olds want to buy insurance and need their credit checked!) 30,000 times over! So, *just* that number should have been sufficient to identify the person making the request. Add to that the ZIP code, house number, first name, date of birth, etc. and they've got more than enough information to UNIQUELY identify the request with far greater certainty than folks going to the gas chamber based on "99.9997% accurate" DNA evidence.

Of course, as I have only a short windo in which to get this information under this request, I'll send a written request also. And, some bozo at the receiving end will have to process that paperwork and wonder why it appears to be a duplicate. Maybe I can "waste" 10 minutes of *their* time?? :-/

[Frank]

Told the wife yesterday that someone needs to develop a machine for the home owner to deal with robo calls.

All you would have to do is dial the number and your robo caller would answer all the robo receivers questions.

[Don Y]

I've been working on a larger version of this problem: designing a device to be an "automated attendant". Imagine how a secretary handles the calls he/she "intercepts" on behalf of his/her boss:

- some calls are politely discarded (folks selling replacement windows)

- some calls are put through with priority (spouse is on the line)

- some calls are prompted to leave a message

- some calls are put on hold while boss is consulted etc.

I.e., the secretary "learns" the boss's preferences/priorities for incoming calls and then efficiently applies those to the calls received. He/she *recognizes* the voice of the boss's spouse, has other ways of identifying specific callers, etc. instead of dumping those tasks on the boss's lap.

"If Tom calls, tell him I'll meet him at the Club after work" "I'm expecting a call from my wife. *FIND* me when it comes!" "If that bozo headhunter calls again, tell him I died!" "Ignore all calls from telemarketers"

With this, you should be able to only answer the phone when the attendant decides you *should*! The rest of the time, the phone needn't even RING!

[Meanie]

If I'm required to answer a question a second time, I press 0 continuously until it tells me to hold for an agent. You spent 15 minutes with an automated system. That's 14 minutes longer than I would have tolerated it.

[Doug Miller]

Frank wrote in news:mssoho$3pa$ [e-mail]:

Someone has. Visit nomorobo.com .

[Percival P. Cassidy]

Saying "Representative" or "Agent" works with many robot-attendant systems.

Perce

[Don Y]

Do you *not* think I tried that?

When you "give up" on a system, what recourse do *you* have? In this case, I can sit down and write a letter. But, I can now do so armed with *details* of the faults in their system. Had I given up after the second time she asked me to spell my name, I'd just end up writing a letter that said: "I was too impatient to deal with your system. Now *you* can jerk me around with SNAIL MAIL to your heart's content..."

[Frank]

I was thinking of calls that you place and have to spend several minutes with their robo answerer.

If you called and got a robo, your robo would take over and provide answers. Your robo would be pre-programmed to give all the answers.

[Frank]

There are legit robo calls that you want to get. My doctors use them to remind me of appointments for example.

[Don Y]

Ah! I understand.

I'm not sure I would want to trust a device with deciding what information to universally "leak" to those who ask for it.

E.g., the call I was commenting about (up-thread) asked for my SSN but indicated that giving it would be optional. I'm not keen on providing that -- especially when it *shouldn't* be needed.

It's amazing how much information folks "require" that isn't truly necessary. "Why do you need that?"

If you went to purchase a pair of shoes and the salesman asked for your name and address, why would you comply with that request? "I'm paying cash. How does my name and address factor into this transaction??"

[Don Y]

Exactly. Our local library gives you a courtesy notification when you have an overdrawn item (so you can promptly return it within the grace period). And, can alert you when items you've reserved have arrived for you. Doctors/dentists/laboratories/etc. all call to remind you of appointments, give you instructions to follow prior to your visit, cancel/reschedule your existing appointments, etc.

OTOH, just because you are willing to *receive* the message doesn't mean that you need to be *disturbed* by it the moment it arrives!

[Tony Hwang]

Often times if you punch # sign or 0(zero) warm body comes on. If you have to answer numbers like 1,2,3(one, two, three), just punch in 1,2,3. My insurance agency, bank, lawyer, accountant are all located in the vicinity. 10 mins. drive at the most. I can deal every thing in person.

[Tony Hwang]

Today's kids are becoming KB punching robots any how. No I.Q needed just punch.

[Don Y]

I tried that. I even made sure I called "during normal work hours" to ensure someone *would* be there. But, it's a nationwide service so doesn't make sense for them to have live staff for a service that they don't make any *money* performing!

And, it *should* be a no-brainer application to automate. Just make something that can recognize spoken digits and letters and you can handle all of the data entry! The only reason to ask the user to pronounce his/her name is if a HUMAN will have to eventually try to suss out what was said: having a spelling *and* pronunciation can make that easier.

In some cases, they allowed DTMF input. In other cases, when I did so, it complained "I'm sorry, I didn't understand you".

As I said, it was just a piss poor implementation!

I don't think any of those are offices for nationwide credit reporting agencies! :> I can phone my insurance agent, bank, accountant, lawyer, doctor, etc. and talk to a real person -- no "machine" getting in the way. If push comes to shove, someone will take a message and have them return my call (e.g., doctor is typically "seeing a patient" when I call; I wouldn't want him to have to run out and take my call at

*my* convenience... I wouldn't be happy if he was running out of the examination room to answer a call when *I* was there!)

[David L. Martel]

Don,

Having determined that the provided number was inadequate did you look for other numbers for this company? I'm presuming here that you do not have a local agent.

Dave M.

[Don Y]

Local insurance agent (i.e., the company which initiated the credit check) was of no help -- nor did I expect them to be. A preprinted flier comes with the new policy indicating that they accessed my credit history, etc. and contained *an* address and phone number. The phone number, at least, appears to be given out *only* to folks who have had their credit checked for this sort of reason -- it's not the same as for a *general* contact regarding your credit history. I.e., the machine that answers the phone makes a statement to the effect of "You have been given this number by a company who checked your credit... yada yada yada". Elsewhere in the dialog, you are prompted for the 14 digit identifier that the credit agency provided to that company when it checked your credit...

So, it is obvious that this contact is *just* for folks "entitled" to a free copy of such a report -- not the "one free copy per year" that EVERYONE is entitled to. I imagine if Joe Nobody called the number and tried to get results, the system would balk when he couldn't provide that reference number, the name of the company that initially checked his credit, etc. He'd probably be directed to something like

1-800-CREDITREPORT (nonsense phone number).

In my case, the "dialog" ended "successfully" -- leading me to believe that a human being would review the data that the machine was apparently unable to process. *Or*, contact me (by phone) for further clarification.

Regardless, I will followup with written correspondence to ensure I am not cheated out of this opportunity due to a faulty implementation. And, to take the time to describe how silly the interview was (why do you need anything more than the 14 digit identifier? And, perhaps, one other bit of trivial data as "confirmation"? After all, the data that I was asked to provide OTHER THAN the 14 digit identifier could easily have been forged by any of my neighbors -- who know my name, address, birthday, ZIP code, insurance company, etc.)

[Tony Hwang]

You are very considerate.

[Mark Lloyd]

[snip]

I get those. The bot takes too long to start talking, and I'm about to hang up since no one's there. They're often painfully slow, like

"The ........................... time ........................... is .......................................... twelve

------------------------------------------- thir

------------------------- teen

------------------------------------------------------ pee

------------------------------------- emm"

[Mark Lloyd]

[snip]

I used to buy a lot of stuff at Radio Shack with cash. They always asked. AFAIK, all they did with that data was send advertising (including the "free" 5-D-cell flashlight, batteries not included).

[Mark Lloyd]

[snip]

And often not. Or, you get a person who's not any better.

One reason I got cable TV instead of satellite. The cable company has a local office and I can go there and talk to a real person.

BTW, that sat customer service was real bad. I told them the problem had been fixed, and they messed me up again.

[snip]