OT: stupid kids on school bus

Page 2 of 3  
wrote:

Yes, but sometimes real life gets in the way so you have to adapt. If the entire bus is punished, the others that are inconvenienced will take care of the bad ones.
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Create more student assaults to solve this one??
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wrote:

Not at all. Behavior can be taught in other ways. Pressure can be put on the screw ups not to do what they have been doing. It worked for a few centuries before the ACLU got involved in our lives.
Peer pressure can work both ways.
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AJL wrote:

It's called "corporate punishment," that is, exacting a penalty on the entire group for the misdeeds of one member. The theory is that the group can exert continuing control over the miscreant.
This technique worked for the Roman Legions, it works in the Marine Corps, and it works in the elementary school classroom.
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wrote:

Here is the assault statute for my state (AZ). This assault, if charged, would be under section 3. There is nothing in this statute that fits the verbal abuse that occurred in this case.
13-1203. Assault; classification
A. A person commits assault by:
1. Intentionally, knowingly or recklessly causing any physical injury to another person; or
2. Intentionally placing another person in reasonable apprehension of imminent physical injury; or
3. Knowingly touching another person with the intent to injure, insult or provoke such person.
B. Assault committed intentionally or knowingly pursuant to subsection A, paragraph 1 is a class 1 misdemeanor. Assault committed recklessly pursuant to subsection A, paragraph 1 or assault pursuant to subsection A, paragraph 2 is a class 2 misdemeanor. Assault committed pursuant to subsection A, paragraph 3 is a class 3 misdemeanor.
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Huh? What's that have to do with anything discussed in this thread?

In AZ we can carry concealed, no permit required...

???
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Apparently you have a reading comprehension problem. Condition #3 was met. The kid poked the lady with a finger, clearly with the intent to insult and/or provoke her.
And you don't need an actual crime to occur in order to call the police for help because you think one is about to. A large part of what they do is PREVENT crime. Again, the bus aid was well within her rights to call the police to meet the bus. Or to have the bus driver take the bus load of kids to the police station or back to school to face the principal.
As for the inconvenience to the other kids, well too bad and so what? The inconvenience was being caused by the unruly kids. Similar and far worse happens all the time. What about the inconvenience to me by being pulled over by the police at a roadblock looking for drunks for example? Or the inconvenience to all the passengers on a plane when they have to divert because of one unruly passenger that is out of control and refuses to obey the flight attendents?
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On 6/24/2012 9:48 AM, snipped-for-privacy@optonline.net wrote:

Don't know about verbal attacks, but a verbal threat is assault in some states (Florida), as is unwanted touching....
http://www.flsenate.gov/Laws/Statutes/2011/784.011
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wrote:

Here in AZ too. We just don't call it an assault. --------------------------------- 13-1202. Threatening or intimidating; classification
A. A person commits threatening or intimidating if the person threatens or intimidates by word or conduct:
1. To cause physical injury to another person or serious damage to the property of another; or
2. To cause, or in reckless disregard to causing, serious public inconvenience including, but not limited to, evacuation of a building, place of assembly or transportation facility; or
3. To cause physical injury to another person or damage to the property of another in order to promote, further or assist in the interests of or to cause, induce or solicit another person to participate in a criminal street gang, a criminal syndicate or a racketeering enterprise.
B. Threatening or intimidating pursuant to subsection A, paragraph 1 or 2 is a class 1 misdemeanor, except that it is a class 6 felony if:
1. The offense is committed in retaliation for a victim's either reporting criminal activity or being involved in an organization, other than a law enforcement agency, that is established for the purpose of reporting or preventing criminal activity.
2. The person is a criminal street gang member.
C. Threatening or intimidating pursuant to subsection A, paragraph 3 is a class 3 felony.
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On 6/24/2012 9:48 AM, snipped-for-privacy@optonline.net wrote:

I know that in Florida, a threat is assault. Unwanted touching is battery. Haven't studied the whole statute today, but here it is:
http://www.flsenate.gov/Laws/Statutes/2011/784.011
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Now the bad kids are being threatened. boo-hoo everyone cry.
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snipped-for-privacy@optonline.net wrote:

A crime was committed before the finger poke. The classic definition of "assault" is "A threat to inflict bodily harm coupled with the immediate ability to carry out that threat." That is, you can't commit an assault over the telephone (no immediacy). "Battery" is the physical part of the altercation.

Woah! The ability of the cops to prevent crime is the thought of what they will do AFTER the crime is committed. The cops have no duty nor authority to prevent any crime.
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Given that last statement, it must be a very strange world you live in, devoid of reality.
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wrote:

Of course they do. Increase the number of marked cars in a particular beat area and the crime statistics go down. Every time. Unless of course they're often tied up on school bus calls... ;)
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This is neither duty nor authority to prevent any crime. This is a way to make less convenient, but the cops still have no way to pick out a specific malefactor and take preventive action.
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AZ also has a statute on intimidation: Threatening or intimidating word or conduct of a nature threatening to cause physical injury or property damage is a criminal offense.

--
America is at that awkward stage. It's too late
to work within the system, but too early to shoot
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On Sun, 24 Jun 2012 06:48:06 -0700 (PDT), " snipped-for-privacy@optonline.net"

The reading error is yours. Read up a few paragraphs where I said: "This assault, if charged, would be under section 3.

True.
Agreed. But only if they have some time for routine patrol and are not tied up on unnecessary school bus calls.

You can call the cops for anything. The most recent I heard was the guy who didn't like the way his sandwich was made.

IMO a bad idea. Where you gonna put the kids? The substations in my area have 5 holding cells or less and they were designed for one person.

Perhaps a little better idea, but if I was a parent of an innocent kid, and waited for a school bus that didn't arrive, I would first be in a panic (accident?) and then pissed. I would have made that principals life miserable. Probably me and several more parents.

I was thinking more of the fairness angle.

No it was a *few* unruly kids. And it was by an incompetent school bus monitor that didn't keep order. Kids push. If you don't take control and show them who's boss things deteriorate. That's what happened here.

As I said it's not the inconvenience I was questioning. It was the fairness to the innocent kids, and the parents of the innocent kids. I could have handled those kids. You could have handled those kids. And the school bus monitor *should have* handled those kids. That was the problem.

Or the 3 to 6 times I get stopped by Border Patrol roadblocks on every trip to CA. Necessary inconveniences. Dragging a school bus full of kids to the police station to solve a minor school problem? Unnecessary...
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What you said in context is this:
"Here is the assault statute for my state (AZ). This assault, if charged, would be under section 3. There is nothing in this statute that fits the verbal abuse that occurred in this case. "
Pay attention to the last sentence. Section 3 exactly fits what occured.

You take the 4 offenders off the bus and into the police station. The bus proceeds on. Really, really simple.

These are not homicide suspects. They could be put in one of the rooms used for questioning, with just a simple door lock.

Thinking like you do, I'm sure you would. But you probably make all kinds of people's lives hell for similar non-existent reasons.

Wow, it was just a few? Really, when did you figure that out? Thanks for the material correction.

Sure you were, you just stated above how you'd be pissed at having the school bus not arrive on schedule. Gee, suppose it broke down, why I guess you'd go ballistic.

Nobody said life is always fair. A lot of kids on that bus were probably fed up with these hoodlums too. They probably would enjoy seeing the bus go to the police station, or having the cops come to the bus. I would, so I could see the thugs get put in their place. And imagine the positive effect when what happens gets all over the school.

That was one problem and I've said that from the start. She isn't qualified to be a bus monitor. However it is not the only problem. The other problem is out of control kids who have no respect for others.

Never said it was necessary. Only that it was a perfectly valid option when young hoodlums are committing assault. Assault by the law YOU provided. And possibly terroristic threats too, by making the remark about possibly sticking the bus aid with a knife. And 20-20 hindsight sure is cool, isn't it. You now know that they in fact were not going to stick her. Of course if they had, why then you might be singing a different tune. And I'm sure you know that there are plenty of incidents where some deranged kids have in fact done exactly that....
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Assault does not necessarily include touching at all.

Some people are clueless, but what are you going to do?

Disagree but not entirely.
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wrote:

APPLAUD!!
Very true and well stated.
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