Not at all. Behavior can be taught in other ways. Pressure can be
put on the screw ups not to do what they have been doing. It worked
for a few centuries before the ACLU got involved in our lives.
Peer pressure can work both ways.
It's called "corporate punishment," that is, exacting a penalty on the
entire group for the misdeeds of one member. The theory is that the group
can exert continuing control over the miscreant.
This technique worked for the Roman Legions, it works in the Marine Corps,
and it works in the elementary school classroom.
Here is the assault statute for my state (AZ). This assault, if
charged, would be under section 3. There is nothing in this statute
that fits the verbal abuse that occurred in this case.
13-1203. Assault; classification
A. A person commits assault by:
1. Intentionally, knowingly or recklessly causing any physical injury
to another person; or
2. Intentionally placing another person in reasonable apprehension of
imminent physical injury; or
3. Knowingly touching another person with the intent to injure, insult
or provoke such person.
B. Assault committed intentionally or knowingly pursuant to subsection
A, paragraph 1 is a class 1 misdemeanor. Assault committed recklessly
pursuant to subsection A, paragraph 1 or assault pursuant to
subsection A, paragraph 2 is a class 2 misdemeanor. Assault committed
pursuant to subsection A, paragraph 3 is a class 3 misdemeanor.
Apparently you have a reading comprehension problem. Condition #3
was met. The kid poked the lady with a finger, clearly with the
to insult and/or provoke her.
And you don't need an actual crime to occur in order to call the
police for help because you think one is about to. A large part of
what they do is PREVENT crime. Again, the bus aid was well
within her rights to call the police to meet the bus. Or to have
the bus driver take the bus load of kids to the police station or
back to school to face the principal.
As for the inconvenience to the other kids, well too bad and so
what? The inconvenience was being caused by the unruly kids.
Similar and far worse happens all the time. What about the
inconvenience to me by being pulled over by the police at a
roadblock looking for drunks for example? Or the inconvenience
to all the passengers on a plane when they have to divert
because of one unruly passenger that is out of control and
refuses to obey the flight attendents?
Here in AZ too. We just don't call it an assault.
13-1202. Threatening or intimidating; classification
A. A person commits threatening or intimidating if the person
threatens or intimidates by word or conduct:
1. To cause physical injury to another person or serious damage to the
property of another; or
2. To cause, or in reckless disregard to causing, serious public
inconvenience including, but not limited to, evacuation of a building,
place of assembly or transportation facility; or
3. To cause physical injury to another person or damage to the
property of another in order to promote, further or assist in the
interests of or to cause, induce or solicit another person to
participate in a criminal street gang, a criminal syndicate or a
B. Threatening or intimidating pursuant to subsection A, paragraph 1
or 2 is a class 1 misdemeanor, except that it is a class 6 felony if:
1. The offense is committed in retaliation for a victim's either
reporting criminal activity or being involved in an organization,
other than a law enforcement agency, that is established for the
purpose of reporting or preventing criminal activity.
2. The person is a criminal street gang member.
C. Threatening or intimidating pursuant to subsection A, paragraph 3
is a class 3 felony.
A crime was committed before the finger poke. The classic definition of
"assault" is "A threat to inflict bodily harm coupled with the immediate
ability to carry out that threat." That is, you can't commit an assault over
the telephone (no immediacy). "Battery" is the physical part of the
Woah! The ability of the cops to prevent crime is the thought of what they
will do AFTER the crime is committed. The cops have no duty nor authority to
prevent any crime.
On Sun, 24 Jun 2012 06:48:06 -0700 (PDT), " firstname.lastname@example.org"
The reading error is yours. Read up a few paragraphs where I said:
"This assault, if charged, would be under section 3.
Agreed. But only if they have some time for routine patrol and are not
tied up on unnecessary school bus calls.
You can call the cops for anything. The most recent I heard was the
guy who didn't like the way his sandwich was made.
IMO a bad idea. Where you gonna put the kids? The substations in my
area have 5 holding cells or less and they were designed for one
Perhaps a little better idea, but if I was a parent of an innocent
kid, and waited for a school bus that didn't arrive, I would first be
in a panic (accident?) and then pissed. I would have made that
principals life miserable. Probably me and several more parents.
I was thinking more of the fairness angle.
No it was a *few* unruly kids. And it was by an incompetent school bus
monitor that didn't keep order. Kids push. If you don't take control
and show them who's boss things deteriorate. That's what happened
As I said it's not the inconvenience I was questioning. It was the
fairness to the innocent kids, and the parents of the innocent kids. I
could have handled those kids. You could have handled those kids. And
the school bus monitor *should have* handled those kids. That was the
Or the 3 to 6 times I get stopped by Border Patrol roadblocks on every
trip to CA. Necessary inconveniences. Dragging a school bus full of
kids to the police station to solve a minor school problem?
What you said in context is this:
"Here is the assault statute for my state (AZ). This assault, if
charged, would be under section 3. There is nothing in this statute
that fits the verbal abuse that occurred in this case. "
Pay attention to the last sentence. Section 3 exactly fits
You take the 4 offenders off the bus and into the police
station. The bus proceeds on. Really, really simple.
These are not homicide suspects. They could be put
in one of the rooms used for questioning, with just a
simple door lock.
Thinking like you do, I'm sure you would. But you probably
make all kinds of people's lives hell for similar non-existent
Wow, it was just a few? Really, when did you figure that out?
Thanks for the material correction.
Sure you were, you just stated above how you'd be pissed
at having the school bus not arrive on schedule. Gee, suppose
it broke down, why I guess you'd go ballistic.
Nobody said life is always fair. A lot of kids on that bus
were probably fed up with these hoodlums too. They probably
would enjoy seeing the bus go to the police station, or having
the cops come to the bus. I would, so I could see the thugs
get put in their place. And imagine the positive effect when
what happens gets all over the school.
That was one problem and I've said that from the start. She isn't
qualified to be a bus monitor. However
it is not the only problem. The other problem is out of control
kids who have no respect for others.
Never said it was necessary. Only that it was a perfectly
valid option when young hoodlums are committing assault.
Assault by the law YOU provided. And possibly terroristic
threats too, by making the remark about possibly sticking
the bus aid with a knife. And 20-20 hindsight sure is cool,
isn't it. You now know that they in fact were not going to
stick her. Of course if they had, why then you might be
singing a different tune. And I'm sure you know that there
are plenty of incidents where some deranged kids have
in fact done exactly that....
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