OT: Should I still make an offer or not

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Sorry this is a off topic but I thought I will ask opinion of the many home owners here.
If a house is listed at 450K and my thinking was to extend an offer at 390K with a ceiling not to exceed 425K, before I had a chance to talk to the listing agent about our offer, she called tonight and told us another couple had made an offer earlier today of the amount 420K and was rejected without a counter offer.
So this put us in a difficult position. It means there is no sense to even make an offer, if 420K was rejected most likely our max of 425K will be rejected as well. Or should I still extend on offer according to the original plan just in case it was a trick and there is nothing to lose?
TIA
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In my part of the country it is illegal to mention what the other offer is/was as this could be used to bump up your offer when maybe no offer was made?
Go with what you think is right and if you don't get it move on there are more houses on the market than buyers right now and the next one might be even a better bargain or better house. I have learned this from experience.
Rich
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Same here. Another buyer bid 12K more on the house but the realtor could not legally (or morally) inform me about this. I submitted my offer as "final offer" anyway and I got the house! The reason was that the higher offer fell through the loan process and I had the money in hand and wanted to close in 5 days which I did. You might offer 400K and see what happens. The thing to remember when shopping is not to fall in love with a house and be willing to move on, that is, if you want a good deal.
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rejected without a counter often means something besides the price is the problem.
i would give them an offer of your original 390k. with a second offer so low, they just might be more worried about not selling the house than you are about not getting it. at least concerned enough to give you a proper counter offer. and as you say, it might be an agent trick. i think you would be a fool to let that other 'offer' influence the price you are going to offer.
in fact, wait two weeks. let them sweat it out.
randy

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xrongor wrote:

Worked for my dad. He offered 10% less then what was asked and was turned down. no counter offer. A month later he offered 15% less then asking price and was accepted.

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You need to do some work with the realtor. How much you can pay is not the issue it is what the house is worth, how long it has been on the market and how motivated the seller is. I myself would consider an it an insult in a reasonable market to have someone present an offer for 60K less that asking. Also don't forget unless you have something else in writing the realtor is getting paid by the seller and is technically working for them. Do your homework with comps and check any county records that are many times online and decide. Making the 425 offer will not cost you anything and the seller may think maybe they overpriced the home?
Do your homework online so you know as much as you can about the home and neighborhood before you make an offer. You should not what the taxes schools crime rate barking dogs as well as utility bills will be for the home, and of course insurance costs. Where I live the water cost is very high at $72.00/month before you buy a gallon of water.
Wayne

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scribbled this interesting note:

You make lots of good points, but the last comment above, I have to wonder...why insulted? It is just an offer, either to be accepted...or not.
-- John Willis (Remove the Primes before e-mailing me)
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If the house is priced right, lots of sellers would fell insulted if the offer is 10%+ less than asking price.
If my neighbors houses of similar sizes and options are selling for $400K easily, I wouldn't talk to the buyer who is offering $360K when I put the house on market, even if he raises the offer later and match or top the bids. I would feel lowball buyers would be difficult to deal with down the line.
It might be different in a buyer's market, though.
John Willis wrote:

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Unless you're planning on turning right around and selling the thing again, the only thing that matters is how much YOU are willing to pay. Make the offer you want to make. If they don't want to sell it at that price, buy a different house.
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Make the offer. The realtor may be blowing smoke up your dress! Greg
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In some states, all real estate agents represent the seller. Others have seller and buyer agents. Before you trust your agent, find out who he represents.
Meanwhile do whatever you were going to do. All they can do is reject it. If they get insulted they are immature business people.

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haha. before you trust ANY agent you should have your head examined. fundamentally there is a conflict of interest. the more the house sells for the more they get whether they are the buyers or sellers agent. its a game of 'who do you trust' with thousands of dollars at stake. dont be a sucker.
what you SHOULD do is go down to the library, get 2 or 3 'how to buy a house' books, and inform yourself.
randy
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True, but getting 6% of a $400,000 house is still better than getting 0% of a $500,000 house. Most just want the sale before their counterparts.

Agree
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Ignore the other offer, ***assuming*** you're offering low for a reason other than playing games. In other words, is there some physical quality of the house that makes you feel it's worth less than the asking price? If yes, then the buyer may get other similar low bids and reconsider their asking price.
It sounds like you're not using a realtor to represent you. I say this because normally, you would NEVER be talking to the seller's agent. In my case, this would've worked against me. My house was listed at $102,500.00 in a neighborhood where identical houses were selling all day at $97k to $100k, depending on the usual assortment of factors. My agent knew another agent who somehow knew that four bids from $99k to $101k had been rejected over a period of 3 months. *AND*, the other agent knew another buyer was about to make an offer around $98,500 on the same day I was. My agent managed to get an appointment to make an offer 2 hours ahead of the other buyer. The agent's scheme: He took my offer to the sellers and told them they had 30 minutes to think about it. Then, he sat in his car outside their house the entire time. At the 29th minute, the seller's agent invited my agent in and I got the house for $96,500.
This is not to say all agents have sources of information, or the balls to pull this off, but it might be worth hiring someone with some experience.

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writes: | Sorry this is a off topic but I thought I will ask opinion of the many | home owners here. | | If a house is listed at 450K and my thinking was to extend an offer at | 390K with a ceiling not to exceed 425K, before I had a chance to talk | to the listing agent about our offer, she called tonight and told us | another couple had made an offer earlier today of the amount 420K and | was rejected without a counter offer. | | So this put us in a difficult position.
Most likely that is the intent, regardless of whether the other offer actually exists. It seems odd (though of course nothing is impossible) that the seller would decline to even counter such an offer unless there is something besides the price to worry about (e.g., some completely unacceptable contingency).
| It means there is no sense to | even make an offer,
If it made sense before you received this additional (possibly spurious) information it still makes sense. Regardless of what agents say, I doubt any seller really resents having an (additional) offer on the table. If the other offer was legitimate your offer might give the seller additional reason to think that the asking price is too high.
| if 420K was rejected most likely our max of 425K | will be rejected as well. Or should I still extend on offer according | to the original plan just in case it was a trick and there is nothing | to lose?
Go with your original plan to offer $390k. I'm not sure what you mean about the ceiling of $425k. If you actually put that in the offer then the seller is going to take $425k as their starting point for a counter offer. Stick to a single number. And remember that contrary to popular wisdom you _can_ bid against yourself. Even if the seller rejects your offer with no counter offer there is nothing to stop you from making a new offer at a higher price. Just don't do this too many times. :) Also, keep in mind that sometimes the best response to a counter offer is, ``no.'' I think some sellers will keep countering as long as you are willing to play since they know that they can always go back to your previous offer which you will likely honor.
Once upon a time I was going to make an offer of about 10% less than an asking price. The agent told me that I might insult the sellers and that if that happened they would never sell to me "at any price." I told her that I wouldn't want that to happen, so I didn't make the offer. About a year later I had cause to look at the same house, now for sale directly by the owners at an asking price which I think was pretty close to what I had been going to offer. Unfortunately, by that time I had been spoiled by some of the other properties I had seen (not being in a hurry is both a blessing and a curse) and the original house no longer seemed that appealing. I did mention my experience to the sellers and I got the impression that similar events caused them to dump the agent.
                Dan Lanciani                 ddl@danlan.*com
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snipped-for-privacy@yahoo.com wrote:

First, remember that realtors, even ones who you hire, almost always work on commission. That means it is their job to make the price as large as possible. They do not have the buyers best interest at heart. Some will out and out lie, many will bent the truth. Don't believe what you were told.
Second, have you done your homework? What is that home really worth? You can hire someone to appraise it, or in many places you can get a good idea by doing some research on your own.
Many counties have web pages where they list the tax value of homes and the price and date of the last sale. Check out that home and other homes in the area. You are looking for recent sales of like size and condition homes.
Last I suggest that you fine an attorney before you sign anything. They are working for you not the seller. You want to make sure the paperwork is not a problem.
--
Joseph Meehan

26 + 6 = 1 It's Irish Math
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i used to work with appraisers. they look at a 1-2 page sheet listing the generic facts about the house (square footage, bedrooms, bathrooms, etc..), they drive by and look at it, and put a price on it. in many cases a crappy house appraises as much as a good house if the agent cant see the problems from the street.
the other problem is that an official appraisal is almost certain to fudge it on the high side because the system works on the basis that the value of real estate goes up. there is huge pressure to make sure houses are not valued too low by the banks, the agents, and the tax system. appraisals are designed by nature to give you the impression you arent getting screwed. they do not represent reality.
the thing to go by is comps. what have comparable houses in the area actually sold for recently. houses (like all things) are worth exactly what someone will give you for it right now. all else is moot.
randy
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xrongor wrote:

Yea, they were crappy appraisers. As you noted, comps must be considered for a proper appraisal unless they are not available.
--
Joseph Meehan

26 + 6 = 1 It's Irish Math
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On 8 Dec 2004 19:52:48 -0800, snipped-for-privacy@yahoo.com scribbled this interesting note:

Go ahead and make your offer. Keep it simple. And remember, the key to making any deal is to be willing to walk away. Eventually you will make the deal you want!:~)
-- John Willis (Remove the Primes before e-mailing me)
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The listing agent represents the seller, not you; sometimes they "fudge" about offers. Get yourself a buyers agent. Pat
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