OT Short of news in the UK

[gonjah]

I haven't heard of any. Sounds like BS,

[Ed Pawlowski]

We know he was on the ground. We don't know how he got there. Maybe one he fell he was trounced on. Maybe, this maybe that. Neither of us knows.

I'd rather deal with facts than assumptions if I'm going to determine the guilty party, or parties. Just conjecture on my part, but I bet it is not 100% on either side.

[Ed Pawlowski]

Assumptions are being made on both sides. I don't know who may be guilty, none of us do. Anything anyone says to the contrary is pure conjecture. I see that you do have one fact straight, "presumed" innocent. Some are saying he is with not facts. Let's find out.

[Ed Pawlowski]

But rational people don't presume guilt just because someone is black.

He has the right to watch, but unless he has police authority, I don't think he has the right to question. That can be confrontational and start a problem.

We don't know for sure who was confrontational yet. Could have been either one.

[Stormin Mormon]

Sigh. Of course it is. Even though it happened on Zero's watch. Especially since it's a black kid who got shot. That proves it.

Christopher A. Young Learn more about Jesus

.

You have to ask?

[Jim Yanik]

Ed Pawlowski wrote in news: [e-mail]:

Did he presume GUILT? Of what? He told police the kid -looked suspicious,and mentioned certain -behaviors- to back it up. and he asked that THEY check him out.

But that has nothing to do with the self-defense done by Zimmerman. even if Zimmerman profiled the kid,that does not meet the standard for "provocation" that would negate a self-defense claim.

here's the applicable Florida statue that I came across on Wiki today;

776.04 Use of force by aggressor. -The justification described in the preceding sections of this chapter is not available to a person who:

(1)Is attempting to commit, committing, or escaping after the commission of, a forcible felony; or

(2)Initially provokes the use of force against himself or herself, unless: (a)Such force is so great that the person reasonably believes that he or she is in imminent danger of death or great bodily harm and that he or she has exhausted every reasonable means to escape such danger other than the use of force which is likely to cause death or great bodily harm to the assailant; or (b)In good faith, the person withdraws from physical contact with the assailant and indicates clearly to the assailant that he or she desires to withdraw and terminate the use of force, but the assailant continues or resumes the use of force.

It's been cited several times now by police that Zimmerman had returned to his SUV when he was attacked. IOW,he WITHDREW from following Trayvon.(no mention of any confrontation,either.) the news report I read today said that Zimmerman was approached by Trayvon after he got back to his SUV,and Z pulled out his phone to call police again when Trayvon punched him,and he fell to the ground,where Trayvon jumped on him and began pummelling him,and banging his head into the sidewalk.(I wondedr if police found Z's blood and maybe hair in that area?) Zimmerman's injuries support that according to police.

Baloney; any person can walk up to anyone and politely ask them questions that are not provocative or "confrontational". Asking what a stranger is doing in a gated community is not "provocative",unless you have a big chip on your shoulder;aka attitude. For that mater,you don't know if the guy is approaching to ask you directions. Especially if you mention you're part of the neighborhood watch,which does confer some legitimate reason to ask such questions about your being there. (I wonder if they have some jacket,hat or other identifying clothing that lets people know you're Neighborhood Watch?)

So I guess this depends on your definition of "provocation" sufficient to disallow self-defense. Asking what you're doing in a gated neighborhood is not IMO,"provocative" in that manner. To a -reasonable- person....

BTW,did you know Zimmerman and his wife was mentoring a black single mom's two boys? Until he had to go into hiding,that is.also Zimmerman's black frfiend is backing him up. Does that sound like Z is a racist?

It's ironic that the family was bitching today about background checking their dead son...that peoplre really don't know much about,and that they use a younger,much nicer "innocent" picture than what he had on his Facebook page.

You keep harping on that,but you and I both know there's NO witnesses or evidence for that,and in that light,Zimmerman doesn't get charged under Florida law. there's also a part of the Stand Your Ground law that provides immunity from arrest or charges,provided there's no reasonable evidence of provocation. (IOW,that would stand up in court) there is none.

And it's becoming clearer and clearer that Trayvon was the initiator of hostilities.

Oh,one other new bit of info;Trayvon's suspension was for pot in school. they found some small bits of MJ in a plastic baggie in his effects. One more thing his parents probably didn't know about their sweet innocent kid.

This is just another Tawana Brawley or Duke U fiasco.

[Jim Yanik]

Ed Pawlowski wrote in news: [e-mail]:

POLICE are saying (have said) that they have no facts or witnesses suggesting Zimmerman did anything wrong. NO "assumptions" there.

when the independent investigators say the same thing,the blacks will probably riot. Of course,that is a sort of blackmail in itself. "arrest and try him,or we'll riot" IS implied.

[Jim Yanik]

gonjah wrote in news:oaCdnUeLWq0bLe3SnZ2dnUVZ [e-mail]:

my gated apartment complex has 2-3 cameras watching each entrance,but I found out they don't see too well at night. not good enough to get a plate number. AFTER my Integra GS-R was stolen....one month after the gates went into operation,in 2007. My neighbor's motorcycle was stolen at 11 AM;the gates are open during the day,I saw it go down. Police are useless.

[Kurt Ullman]

Wasn't that also more or less the premise for Demolition Man (although they kept the crooksicles closer to home). Sandra Bullock in that tight cop's uniform (sigghhh)

[Ed Pawlowski]

Yes, just like all the others here on both sides.

Exactly. All speculation. Let's wait for the investigation.

[krw]

Or that someone is white, or Hispanic. ...or that the dumb kid is black. The fact that this is an issue shows what a racial circus it is.

You have evidence that he did?

We have only have your fantasy that Zimmerman attacked first.

[krw]

He's just a more polished turd, now.

She should have been charged criminally. Sharpton, too.

[krw]

No, there is physical evidence and eyewitness accounts that back up Zimmerman's story. There are NONE that back up your fantasy.

Then why are *you* speculating? Rather hypocritical, no?

[krw]

Han loves the strawman argument.

[Ed Pawlowski]

But I drew no conclusions.

[Han]

" [e-mail]" wrote in news: [e-mail]:

Yes, but he does have a following that needs to be taken into account, politically. It's unfotunate, but true.

I don't know whether there was a criminal investigation (and I am too lazy to look it up). Most likely Al was smart enough not to commit any outrageous provable crimes. And in criminal cases you're innocent until proven guilty.

[Han]

Jim Yanik wrote in news:XnsA022CE7F2827Fjyaniklocalnetcom@216.168.3.44:

At the moment, because of the deficiencies in the police handling of the case, there is a suspicion by some of the police swiping the case under the rug, and giving Zimmerman a free pass.

On the other hand, there is also a suspicion of a Tawana Brawley-like incitement to riot.

I'm afraid that the lack of real conclusive evidence as to what led to the fisticuffs will leave each side with its supporters.

It is unfortunate that we won't hear Martin tell his side.

[Kurt Ullman]

At the moment because of deficiencies in the way the press reported the handling. We have no more clear information on how the case proceeded at the cop (or DA level for that) to make anything remotely resembling an informed judgement.

Or incitement to open up check books or get in front of the cameras (grin).

>

[krw]

Of course there is. Race-baiters have to make a living.

Don't be an idiot.

Bullshit. The race-baiters fanned the flames (read: incited to riot). The NC lacrosse case was the same deal.

Stupid move and he died for it. Too bad, but the gene pool is cleaner.

[krw]

Sure, but that doesn't change the facts, nor should it put him above the law.

Incitment to riot. Making false statements to police. Fishing without a licence. (HeyBub made me do it)