OT: Shop Walmart (or HF) - Save the Planet

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Is it a requirement of being liberal that you have your sense of irony (as well as humor) removed. Thus the addendum about both being patently absurd. I was attempting to point out the Presidents get credit (or blame) for things they have little or no control over.

How do I figure government has little control over business cycles? Years and years of experience across different types of economies. Heck even the centrally planned commies had their equivalents.

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Where the hell were you? It was booming and during the first 6 years of the Bush administration we saw the lowest unemployment since WWII.

Obama himself has declared on more than one occasion that he is a socialist and his primary goal is the redistribution of wealth. He has undertaken that agenda with all of his capability and the aid and support of the Democratic leadership. As for Sarah Palin, she is a cute dingbat who is taking advantage of her 15 minutes of fame but that doesn't change the fact that Obama is a socialist.

You are kind of backwards on that, the Tea Party is using Palin not the other way around.

I have no problems with government as long as it is government limited to the purposes that it was established for. The problem is that no government entity is ever satisfied with that limit and is constantly infringing on ever greater control over the populance. They are never satisfied with the amount of taxes and constantly want more. The federal government wants us all to forget that the federal tax load is only a part of our everyday tax load.

The concern was always there but not until the last two years of the Bush administration when the Democrats took control of Congress did the doubling of the National debt take place. AND YES I BLAME BUSH for not telling the Democratic Congress to go fuck themselves and using the VETO on the first budget presented by that Democratic Congress. He did so the second year and the budget was NOT passed and approved until Obama took office. In addition to your mistaken views on the deficit, you need to also look at when and why the loss of jobs occured in the last year of Bush's administration.

Just like the democrats and especially Obama want to place ALL the blame on the Republicans while trying to make themselves look like they have all the answers. Funny though that Obama had the absolute control of both houses for his first 15 months in office and still those know it all democrats couldn't get anything done. They couldn't even agree on Obama's own landmark Healthcare bill and ended up with a totally useless and costly piece of crap. They spent trillions on bailouts and buyouts while totally losing control over all of that money and not being able to actually say where it all went. The only thing we now know is that it didn't do any good, all of the saved jobs or created jobs numbers were fabricated out of thin air and the economy is dead in the water.

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On 9/17/2010 11:15 AM, BobR wrote:

The unemployment rate means little.
Jobs were not being created. The only thing being created was imaginary wealth. All that puffed up Real Estate wealth for one.
Note that all that deflated. The Stock Market had no more value on the day W left office than the day he took office. Home prices are at values of a decade or so ago.

Cite. He

She has always been an opportunist. She will take any opportunit whether she was qualified or not. I'm sure Jesus has something to do with that.

Complete and utter nonsense:
All W did was keep as much debt off the books as possible. Obama was at least honest about paying for the wars.
AND YES I BLAME BUSH

Unpaid for wars. Unpaid for Medicare Drug bill. Unpaid for tax cuts.
Under what Congress were those?
He did so the second year and the budget was NOT passed and

Let's see.
Rescued banking, saved the auto industry, got Health Care reform. All with no help from Republicans.
You want more?
They couldn't

The bailouts under Obama have largely recovered the money. The TARP money spent under W is largely lost.
while totally losing control over all of that

Cite.
The only

Recessions based on financial meltdowns always take a long time to recover from. That and the savings rate in this country has been negative for years. You can't spend your way out of a recession with no money. The money was squandered by W.
Jeff

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Tell that to the almost 18% of the public that is currently unemployed. The 9.5% quoted by the government is ONLY those who are still collecting unemployment and actively seeking employment. The rest are not being counted.

Wealth and jobs are two different things. The jobs were there but they were being offshored as fast as a speeding bullet in a headlong rush to lower costs.

The stock market is over inflated and meaningless as a measure. Home prices were back where they should have been to begin with. I also don't blame W for the mass stupidity of everyone in regards to the stock market or home prices. I have seen it all before.

Gawd, have you had your head in a bucket or what?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iivL4c_3pck

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IUfo-RxkXA8&feature=related


And you don't think Obama has done exactly the same thing? So what, that is the nature of most if not all politicians. I don't fault them for it, it is what they are and the best you can do is recognize that and make sure you don't give any of them too much power. On that point, we have failed miserabley.

Gawd but your head is buried up O's ass.

Of course you do! You can't do anything else without admitting that you have made a horrible mistake with Obama.

All of which don't even start to add up to what Obama has done and is going to do over the next two years if Congress doesn't rein him in.

You haven't presented any yet so how could you give more?

Dream on but please wake up soon. By the way, I didn't agree with the TARP bailout either but almost everyone in Congress did and nobody pushed harder for it than Obama. Oh, and most of the TARP money was spent during the first months of the Obama administration.

Cite? Where have you been for the last two years? Why don't you provide some proof of where all that money went, nobody else can seem to.

Funny that you would make a statement "You can't spend your way out of a recession" when that is exactly what Obama has been doing for the last two years and is proposing for the next two. You really need to pay more attention to what is going on and who has been spending what.
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wrote:

No, the 18% is known as the "U6", or the number that are *under*employed, meaning those that aren't working full time, or in a lesser job than they're qualified for.
What's quoted as the "unemployment rate" is the U3, or the number that are actively seeking work but have none. It doesn't matter if they're collecting unemployment insurance or not. The key is that they're actively seeking work.
Both statistics are collected by phone interviews (there is also an employer survey). Again, unemployment checks have nothing to do with these statistics.
http://www.search.com/reference/Unemployment

In fact he warned of the bubble, and the F&F twins *many* times, at least twice in SotU messages. The Dems, like Franks, poo-pooed the suggestion that the housing market couldn't last and that F&F were in deep trouble.
<...>
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Jeff Thies wrote:

Things were pretty good during the Bush administration: Unemployment averaging 5%, 24 consecutive quarters of economic growth, nominal inflation, stock market above 12,000, and so on. This in spite of two wars, 9-11, and Katrina.
Then the Democrats took control of Congress. Things, some things, many things, all things, went into the crapper. The Bush administration did, regrettably, add $800 billion to the national debt. The Obama administration matched that 8-year total during their first month in office and now, 20 months later, have managed to add $3 trillion more to the debt. More is in sight.

Well, yeah. That should be obvious.
I used to think we needed a liberal administration every decade or two, just to remind us how wicked they were. I now worry that they are screwing up the country so much during their brief tenure that we can't repair it fast enough.
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On Thu, 16 Sep 2010 19:40:22 -0400, "Stormin Mormon"

Exactly!
"The administration and the progressives and, quite honestly, the Marxists, all see the world's wealth contained in this this is it, you just have one pie. The entire world only has one pie."
[...]
"We don't have to keep dividing the pie because every time you get a new person in, they're like oh, yes, well, I hate this guy. And this guy, he's got to have his pie over here and then the next election, and this guy this guy should have his pie over here and some of this guy's pie should go back over to him and then this piece? This piece goes over here and then this piece this piece goes over here but then I take this piece and I put this piece back here. Yummy, isn't it?"
[...]
"You are a baker. Not a divider. Someone has to stand up and say that. Americans are bakers, not dividers."
[...]
"We had to teach these people who have just done this with the pie that there's more pie out there. There's as much pie for everybody. You just have to make it. But that's going to be tough because you need, strangely, unlabeled flour and eggs and utensils. You need all of this stuff and you need a recipe and you need to be taught baking is not easy."
[...]
"Where's America's plate? Here's America's plate. We have half the pie. But remember, we first baked the pie."
Search for _Pie Pop Quiz_ for the whole story...
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BobR wrote:

Uh, Walmart?
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You might want to read my question again?
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BobR wrote:

You're right. I misread it. Still, a company depends on three basic ingredients: labor, capital, and raw materials. It can prevail over its competition by minimizing the cost of any one of the three. * It can reduce labor costs - for example, by automatization, * It can substitute cheaper raw materials, or * Self-finance its needs
In your example, there may be an industry where labor may make up a negligible percentage of the cost of the product or service.
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The substitution of cheaper raw materials is difficult to do without scrifice of quality at the same time. Automation is good if the production can be automated but involves high capital infusion to accomplish and that must be factored in. On the other hand, some business is based on labor and not manufactured products which limits any attempt to reduce costs.
Back in the early 70's I had an online computer services company that specialized in offering inventory control services to my clients. I also offered a service to insurance companies for rate computations by their local representatives. My product was information and the distribution channel was online terminals in the clients offices attached to my computer system. It was effecient and very effective for that period of time and was a great business model when I first started the business. It was also a time of huge changes in both communications and computer systems. I ran the business with a profit from the first year and for the next six years. During that time I experienced one huge cost increase that I couldn't control and that was for the communications lines. (That was back when MaBell controlled everything.) My costs for those lines went up over 1000 percent within one years time. It would have been much more except for a huge investment in multiplexing.
In spite of being profitable it became clear to me that the future for my business was not looking good. I saw the cost of the mini- computers decreasing at such a rate that it was no longer an advantage to try and process from a service. The business model was simply no longer valid. It really became clear when the insurance company that I was providing service for requested that I consult with them to setup the same service I was providing locally from their headquarters to their representatives nation wide. They agreed to continue using my service for the local area even though what I setup for them could have easily replace my service. Instead of waiting for the business to turn unprofitable I decided instead to perform an orderly shutdown. I negotiated with my customers to buy my equipment for what was owed to the banks and I would provide the software and setup for their operations. I helped other customers buy the needed equipment for their operations and provided them the software. Finally, the insurance company agreed to buy all of my communications equipment for their own operation. All of this took place and was completed at the same time my office lease expired.
I ended up sutting the business down over a three month period without any of my customers being hurt in any way. In fact, all of them realized a total savings as a result and I received some consulting business from them in the years that followed. I also shutdown without owing anyone anything including the landlord of my office building. It was a hard decision to make at the time but I realized that when the business climate changes that you must accept it and move on. The computer service company ended but I moved on as a self- employed business and computer consultant for the next 25 years.
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BobR wrote:

You demonstrated the sequel to the axiom "Find a need and fill it," the sequel being "get out when you're on top." I applaud your foresight - many entrepreneurs hang on to the bitter end.
I heard this interesting (fictional) tale you might find interesting:
An inventor reportedly concots machine for "reading" x-rays. Hospitals e-mail him a digitized copy of a patient's x-ray and he sends back a reading within four hours. His invention, moreover, allows him to charge about one-tenth the cost of an on-staff radiologist.
Hospitals are dubious, but they send him some x-rays already read by staff experts. Lo and behold, the invention turns out results every bit as good or better than a board-certified radiologist!
He corners the market. The radiologists are upset. They demand a governmental investigation charging, among other things, practicing medicine without a license!
The inventor protests - to no avail. At the appointed time, a committee from the state medical board appears at his office to inspect his invention.
Turns out, there was no "invention." The "inventor" simply forwarded the digitized x-rays to radiologists in India who inspected the data, wrote a report, and e-mailed the results back to the "inventor." He, in turn, merely forwarded the report back to the originating hospital.
The story goes no farther. But if this happened in real life, I suspect the "inventor" would spend his declining years in the Grey Bar Hotel.
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So would the managers at any hospital that used the reports for billing to Medicare since they have to certify who the radiologist was that read the X-ray and signed off on the report.
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You can prevail over your competition even if you don't minimize the cost of those three and have a higher priced product. The trick is, you must have a product so superior that people are willing to pay a premium to have it. The quality of goods from China has improved considerably so the stuff from here no longer commands the premium price. Couple that with the fact that many consumers don't care if a product lasts a long time, they want the newest model next year anyway.
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Ed Pawlowski wrote:

Or the product is "trendy."
First, I think, we had "Designer coffee." Then "designer jeans." We now have "designer water!"
Aside:
Why must designer water have the government-mandated "Nutrition Label" (Calories - 0, Trans-fats - 0, Carbohydrates - 0, and so on) but the water that comes from the tap doesn't? Is it because the labels would clog the pipes?
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My favorite bottle water label was in China where they included the amount of lithium.. which is water soluble so the more water you drink, the more lithium is excreted.
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Kurt Ullman wrote:

Ah, now we know why Chinese workers are so compliant!
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Did you notice that Starbuck's is coming out with a "premium" coffee? Well, they should, because theirs is crap.

Perhaps they don't want you to know what's coming out of the tap. ;-)
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snipped-for-privacy@att.bizzzzzzzzzzzz wrote:

No, I hadn't heard. But the last time I went to Sam's Club they tried to sell me a premium membership entitling me to merchandise discounts.
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Amazon and Harbor Freight do the same. Some people actually buy them.
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