OT Safety Deposit Box (at a bank)

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On Wed, 2 Mar 2011 10:08:25 -0800, "Bill"

Do you keep your key around your neck?
These days there are really not that many irreplaceable documents. Your driver's license may be as hard to replace as the deed for your house, particularly in a "real ID" state. My broker has my stock certificates and usually I never actually see one.. If I had 10 pounds of gold, that might be something to put in the box but if you really think that is for the apocalypse, wouldn't you want it buried in the yard?
If your house burns down and you don't take your wallet, you will find out who your friends are. That is the bottom line.

I think my mother did the best on this of anyone I know. She had a list of everything of importance, who was supposed to get what, both kids had a copy and I was on all of her accounts. The state was never involved in anything. After her demise, I wrote the appropriate checks to disperse the assets and everyone was happy. I kept one joint account open for several years in case something turned up (checks etc) and when the dust completely settled, I closed that one. The only mistake that was made was later I turned up a $50 E bond in her name and I suppose that will end being her gift to the US government because there is no simple way to cash it. I doubt she even remembered she had it.
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Your bank gave you false information. Boxes have two keys, one which they put in, one which you put in, then their representative leaves the room. It takes two keys to open them, or at least every one I've seen, and that would be about 100.
Safe deposit boxes are safe, although some have been burglarized, and accessed by bank employees in the past. A black plug key is put into the decedent's keyhole upon notification of death, and access may be restricted after that, but if someone gets there first and cleans it out ................. Some of the prementioned bank employee accesses were on deceased renters.
There are new things that are like safe deposit boxes that are used by all manner of people. Mostly drug and illicit money people, and those who just need access to lots of cash 24/7. Some have iris scans, and all are relatively safe.
You cannot get into a bank box 24/7, only during business hours and hot on bank holidays. They are not going to give you a receipt for a $4.6 million diamond ring, which they then legally take custody of, by filling out any paltry paperwork. It would have to be appraised, etc. Same for valuable coins, artifacts, historical items, one of a kind rarities, etc.
All in all, they are a very safe, secure place, although can be seized by the IRS or other means. If 24/7 access is an issue, then the private vaults would be your way to go. Just remember that you have to drive to and from there, and anyone on the street that sees you go in there at 2 AM might have an interest in you on the way in or out. The pros will know when you're holding, and the punks will shoot you even if they miss the call and don't get any money anyway.
Good luck.
If it wouldn't be divulging too much, what, exactly is it you want to secure? Be vague. Maybe the installation of a floor safe would do the same thing.
SteveB
Heart surgery pending? Read up and prepare. Download the book $10 http://cabgbypasssurgery.com
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"SteveB" wrote in message

Your bank gave you false information. Boxes have two keys, one which they put in, one which you put in, then their representative leaves the room. It takes two keys to open them, or at least every one I've seen, and that would be about 100.
Safe deposit boxes are safe, although some have been burglarized, and accessed by bank employees in the past. A black plug key is put into the decedent's keyhole upon notification of death, and access may be restricted after that, but if someone gets there first and cleans it out ................. Some of the prementioned bank employee accesses were on deceased renters.
There are new things that are like safe deposit boxes that are used by all manner of people. Mostly drug and illicit money people, and those who just need access to lots of cash 24/7. Some have iris scans, and all are relatively safe.
You cannot get into a bank box 24/7, only during business hours and hot on bank holidays. They are not going to give you a receipt for a $4.6 million diamond ring, which they then legally take custody of, by filling out any paltry paperwork. It would have to be appraised, etc. Same for valuable coins, artifacts, historical items, one of a kind rarities, etc.
All in all, they are a very safe, secure place, although can be seized by the IRS or other means. If 24/7 access is an issue, then the private vaults would be your way to go. Just remember that you have to drive to and from there, and anyone on the street that sees you go in there at 2 AM might have an interest in you on the way in or out. The pros will know when you're holding, and the punks will shoot you even if they miss the call and don't get any money anyway.
Good luck.
If it wouldn't be divulging too much, what, exactly is it you want to secure? Be vague. Maybe the installation of a floor safe would do the same thing.
SteveB
Heart surgery pending? Read up and prepare. Download the book $10 http://cabgbypasssurgery.com I worked in a bank for over 40 years in California. It is true the box is sealed upon the death of an owner. However, It is permissible for the joint tenant or an executor to have access to the box for the purpose of removing a will and/or burial instructions ONLY, in the presence of a bank employee. The balance of the bank contents are only released after being inventoried by a representative of the government-for inheritance tax purposes. Elgy
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"ELGY" <lgpetersatcomcastdotnet> wrote

It may vary 49 different ways from that.
Steve
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On 3/2/2011 11:52 PM, SteveB wrote:

And, it varies even in CA ...

So again to reiterate, not only do the rules depend on the State, even within a given state it may (and does) depend on the details of the particular situation.
The lesson to be learned is to find out what the law is in your own state and generally it's wise to have a coholder if one has intent that access to the contents should be uninterrupted on one's demise although there are places where possibly even that isn't so; in the quick perusal I noted before into NY law (although I certainly didn't do enough to be certain I didn't find it explicitly mentioned but I didn't actually find the pertinent section of NY Code itself, either).
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On 3/3/2011 9:22 AM, dpb wrote:

The second lesson is that sometimes even the institution doesn't actually know the law and may be overly conservative as in the above where the limitation apparently was attempted to be placed on any box regardless of a surviving coholder or not. There may be some other nuance/conflicting statute in CA law I didn't find, but nothing contravening the above showed up in quick look-see that would preclude the surviving legitimate coholder from having unfettered access to the content of his box (think surviving spouse as most common instance).
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On 3/1/2011 7:47 PM, Bob R wrote:

A bit more off topic but I used to have one until I got a free ~100 year old safe. I'm told by a previous safe mover that it weighs about 2 tons. About 29x28x38". Walls average 12" thick, lots of steel, I think layers of steel and concrete. Not much money in it, mostly important papers, some CD's of photographs, vehicle titles. I believe it has enough mass that if the garage burnt down the inside would never get hot enough to burn papers. I used to keep a jug of water in it so if the temp got high inside it would stay cooler with the water steaming inside it. I don't know if that would help but it sort of makes sense to me? It's on wheels but I may remove them someday, it's difficult to move now but it would be a real bitch to steal without wheels and the bottom sitting flat on the concrete floor.
It was first moved to my house with the help of a front end loader and chains, then out of the basement with the help of a rollback to a storage unit. From there I moved it by myself with the help of a cherry picker, into a trailer and hauled it 600 miles and into my new garage. I beefed up the floor of the trailer so it wouldn't fall through the floor and sit on the axles.
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Tony Miklos wrote:

There are 2 kinds of safe - burglary and fire. Fire safes have a lot of insulation in the walls which is not particularly resistant to burglary. Burglary safes have lots of steel in the walls which is not particularly resistant to fire. UL has different ratings for each of them.
I don't know if the mass of your safe would allow papers to survive a garage fire. Would be interesting if a 100 year old burglary safe has relockers to protect from punching the lock. On the other hand, I might get a safe if it was free just because it is interesting.
The thermal mass of a concrete floor would add to the fire protection of a floor safe. I don't know if that makes them safe for fires. Or if they would keep out water in a fire event.
I wouldn't bet that a fire safe that was cheap enough that I would be interested in buying it would provide enough protection for a real hot fire.
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wrote:

I saw an interesting idea for a "safe" some years ago. It was just a four inch "clean out" plug in a utility room floor, in a place that looked pretty much right but there was a hollow space under it that you could fill with quite a bit of stuff. I imagine since it was below grade, you could put a fiberglass plug in there and have quite a bit of thermal protection. It is also likely to be overlooked by most burglars.
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On Tue, 1 Mar 2011 19:47:10 -0500, snipped-for-privacy@webtv.net (Bob R) wrote:

I think they're called safede posit Boxes. That is safe deposit boxes.
An awful lot of people say safety deposit, but I think that's because they tack the de on the end of safe, and others have learned from them.
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I've not had problems with CDs going bad.
I have commercial (music) CDs that are 25 years old that play fine, but I guess those are made with different technology from my computer burning them.
People claim that videotapes go bad after a few years, but I found a batch that my brother recorded in the mid-eighties (Hill Street Blues episodes, for example) that played just fine a few years ago.
I'd trust a CD over a mechanical hard drive, especially one that gets transported back and forth somewhere on a weekly basis.
I do incremental backups every week or two and full backups every few months. Important and small files I can email to myself.
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Yes, commercial CD's are pressed and usually last a long time without problems. Recordable CD's and DVD's use organic dyes that degrade over time, typically from the outer edge and growing inward. Thus, a CD that is completely full (i.e. for backups) is more likely to have data loss than a disk with a few files stored on it (the outer edge can degrade without reaching your data area). Still, it is a real guessing game whether the disk will still be usable when you need it.

Videotapes (or any magnetic tape) generally hold up fine in storage as long as they are cool, dry, and stored away from magnetic fields. They should be stored on edge (not flat) so the tape doesn't "droop" on the spools over time. Ideally you should fast forward and rewind the tape every now and then to keep the tape from sticking to itself.
Video and cassette tapes generally go bad from repeated playing, a combination of friction, stretching, and weak magnetic fields from the heads. The absolute worse case is making a copy, of a copy, of a copy, etc... :)
Of course, the last company making consumer VCR's stopped making them a year or two ago. So even if the tape is good, finding a machine to play them on could be a problem later on.

ALL backup media WILL fail at some point. That's why it is so important to have multiple backups, and keep at least one off site somewhere in case of fire, flood, theft, etc.
Yes, you could drop your hard drive and break it, you could step on your USB flash drive and crack it, a CD could degrade, or your DVD could melt and warp in sunlight. Of course, CD's and DVD's can only be used once, and the rewritable versions have limited lifespans. USB flash drives have relatively low storage capacity for their price.
On a simple cost basis, hard drives are hard to beat. I only paid something like $150 or less for a 1 TB external 2.5" USB hard drive. A hard drive is fast, and I can keep multiple backups on a single drive. So far I have never had a backup drive fail on me, but it is sure to happen at some point. That's why I have multiple backup drives. I usually end up upgrading to newer (larger) drives before they ever have a chance to go bad.
Anthony Watson Mountain Software
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