I'll assume you neglected to read this section:
When I lived on Long Island there was a program for encouraging people
to switch from oil heating to natural gas heating, I only paid for
materials, nothing for labor, I saved more than half on the
installation... they provided a long list of plumbers, the one I chose
did a fantastic job, even plumbed in a line for my patio Weber at no
cost to me. The propane company I use here makes all installations
for free, I only pay for materials, nothing for labor. They installed
my tankless on demand water heater for only the cost of materials,
$1,200... and it was a big job re plumbing everything including
dismemboring the water jacketed wood stove that was here... I have
absolutely no desire to burn wood for heat and hot water. I suggest
you do more research before dismissing the concept, otherwise I think
you'll be making a huge mistake.
Back in 2006, my 27 year old gas 40 gallon WH started leaking. Home
Depot offered new ones in three price tiers/warranty lengths. I opted
for a Rheem that HD guaranteed for "As long as you own your home" as it
wasn't much more expensive than the 10 or 12 year warranties.
Yeah, I know most water heaters are all the same and the reason the
longer warranty ones are more expensive is you're buying insurance from
So my Rheem is at 10 years and working just fine, However, the
now-required expansion tank on the water line sprung a lead a few years
back. Plumber wanted $185 to replace it. But I picked one up for $39 at
Home Depot, unscrewed the old one, and screwed in the new one. Took less
than 10 minutes-- not counting the trip to HD!
However beautiful the strategy, you should occasionally look at the results.
- Winston Churchill
The more expensive longer warranted units USUALLY have additional
features like a turbulator tube, bras instead of plastic sediment
drain, and 2 instead of 1 anodes. - just for starters. That's the
difference between 3, 6, and 9 year tanks up here anyway. The
differencwe between a 9, 10, or 12 year warranty and "as long as you
own the house" would LIKELY be just the insurance.. And they are
betting you won't still own the house 15 years from now. THAT warranty
is not transferrable - while a 9, 10, or 12 year quite possibly is.
This is a No-Brainer!
I love mine, should have done it long ago... a bit pricey but more
than pays for itself in two years. You already have gas available so
have your gas company install a Rinnai. Space is no problem, mine is
mounted on my basement wall, no larger than a piece of carry-on
luggage... can be mounted in a closet, if you live in a warm climate
it can be nounted in your garage or on the exterior of your house. Hot
water is unlimited, it stops making hot water when you run out of
water. I can run my clothes washer, dishwaher, and shower all at the
same time. Mine runs on propane, with natural gas you'll save even
On Saturday, June 4, 2016 at 10:53:27 AM UTC-4, Brooklyn1 wrote:
Only if you don't think about it.
Please show us the math that shows how that works. I have nat gas
bills during the summer, with just the WH and some grilling,
that are under $20 with a 40 gal tank WH. How do I pay for a
typical $2000 tankless install in two years?
Given the high gas needs of a tankless, it may however require new piping
all the way to the meter. And typically does require at least some
Space is no problem, mine is
I have a 40 gal tank and I too can run my washer, dishwasher and shower
all at the same time. A tankless does have the advantage of unlimited
water, so if you have a large household, lots of people wanting to take
showers at the same time, it does have advantages. But saving money,
I've yet to see that justified. And if the power goes off, I still have
unlimited hot water. What happens with the Rinnai with no power?
Yah, they work great...until they don't.
I used to have a tankless. It worked ok but one morning it broke in the middle of my shower.
I was shampooing my hair, soap all over my face and eyes when suddenly the water temp dropped to 55 degrees F. Needless to say, later that same morning I replaced that tankless POS with a good old-fashioned 50 gallon tank style.
Tankless is a very bad idea if you have cold well water. I advise everyone to make sure they are OK taking a cold shower because sooner or later, they'll have to.
On Saturday, June 4, 2016 at 1:46:34 PM UTC-4, Dick Hymen wrote:
Having experience with both, what can you tell us about the cost of getting
both installed? DIY or pro? And what was your experience with the differences
in operating cost? Tankless people claim huge savings. I have a hard time
seeing how this is possible. As I said earlier, my nat gas bill in summer
is under $20. As I see it, the operating cost savings is mostly due to there
being no standby losses from the tank. With my operating cost, I'd never
make up for the increased cost of the unit, the install cost, etc.
They are expensive to buy, to install, and to service. They require a
LOT more fas supply capacity if gas, or a much higher current breaker
if electrical - often requiring the upgrading of either the electrical
service or gas serviced - at SIGNIFICANT cost to you.
Alas, a tankless, on-demand hot water system is beyond my budget. I
thank y'all for the suggestions and recommendations.
===============================Kitchen Rule #1 - Use the timer!
Kitchen Rule #2 - Cook's choice!
How can it be beyond your budget when after all is tallied it costs
far less than a traditional tank type water heater. I at first
thought it was pricey too but in 18 months it saved more than it cost
and still saves hundreds of dollars every year... on average it costs
$80/month less to run than my old tank type. Don't be a penny-wise
dollar-fool. If you don't have the extra cash it'll be the best home
improvement loan you can make. What your budget can't afford is
another tank type water heater... just pisses away dollars 24/7 making
many gallons of hot water you don't even use, a silent wallet drain.
tankless water heater around here. My TOTAL: gas bill would have to be
reduced fo zero for about 5 years ( I heat with gas, and my annual gas
bill is under $700 for both heating the house and water - and running
I'll bet the standby loss on my water heater is well under $100 per
year. Let's run the numbers. From my gas bill, the water heater uses
about 0.4 cubic meters per day to heat the water ( the total amount of
gas used in the months of July, August, and september - which actually
includes the use of the Bar B Q)- including both thw water we use and
the water that is stored. That is less than $0.10 per day (at a total
cost of $0.1845 per meter it is actually $0.074) - so a tankless could
not save more than ten cents a day in gas use - about $36.50 per year.
At that rate, a $3600 tankless (installed price) would take 100
years to pay for itself. I can tell you with ABSOLUTE certainty the
tankless heater will NEVER last long enough to pay for itself at that
rate. If you think it can, you are dreaming in technicolor!!!!
Especially when you consider the FACT that the lost heat is not wasted
for about 8 months of the year because supplemental heat is required,
to one extent or another, for those 8 months - lowering the actual
savings to something less than 10 dollars per year.
These are actual numbers -from real experience - and the numbers
don't lie. You can NOT make the numbers work for a tankless natural
gas water heater to EVER pay for itself in savings at anywhere NEAR
today's natural gas prices.
At Ontario's electricity costs there is a CHANCE you could mmake a
case for it paying for itself in 10 years if you didn't have to
upgrade the electrical service to 200 amp - which in my case would add
over $10,000 (and I just replaced my 100 amp fuse panel with a 125 amp
breaker panel - the largest I could install without having to spend
over $8000 to upgrade the underground feed from the transformer) A
standard whole house tankless electric water heater (120 to 180 amps)
would require an electric service as big as or larger than my entire
existing house service. Even the small "single point of use" units
require a 50 or 60a amp breaker!!!
email@example.com wrote in rec.food.cooking:
Some folks do not know how to actually run the numbers. Replacing a
waterheater that is about 200$ that costs under 300$ a year to run with
a 3,000$ unit will not pay off. EVER. Most of us pay less than 300$ a
year to heat water. Mine is gas so 1/2 that. It would take me 20
years to break even and by then, the tankless unit would have long been
For the number challanged. At 300$ a year operation (high end), it
takes 10 years to pay for a tankless and for all that time, you also
pay electric for the tankless to use. IE: you pay close to 1/2 the
operation costs with a tankless but your up front cost means you will
not pay off on it. Ever.
You must use a tremendous amount of hot water.
Saving $80 a month may pay for it, however, those numbers don't work for
many of us.
My cost for hot water is about $35 a month total. I just checked. Even
if it reduced my cost to zero, the payback is not there. We do laundry,
dishes, shower, etc and never spend more than that.
Your savings over 18 months is about $1440. That is what I spend in 3
1/2 years. If the cost was $1440 and it cut my bill in half, the
payback would be 7 years.
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