OT: police refuse to do their job

[HeyBub]

Laws on "citizen's arrest" vary by jurisdiction. In my state, the law actually reads:

"A peace officer or any other citizen may arrest without warrant for an offense committed in his presence if the offense is a felony or breach of the peace, or to prevent the consequence of theft."

In other words, for a felony, there is no difference between the arrest powers of a peace officer or a private citizen. Likewise for misdemeanors that disturb the peace. Likewise for shoplifting. Only a peace officer, however, may arrest for other misdemeanors (traffic, parading without a permit, small-time vandalism, etc.).

We also have the following law:

"A person is justified in using deadly force against another to protect land or tangible, movable property: (2) when and to the degree he reasonably believes the deadly force is immediately necessary: (A) to prevent the other's imminent commission of arson, burglary, robbery, aggravated robbery, theft during the nighttime, or criminal mischief during the nighttime..."

In other words, if you're up to no good after dark, you're dead.

Try Google for: (your state)+arrest+citizen or some such. Or ask the next cop you see.

[SteveB]

" [e-mail]" wrote

You surely have the right to refuse the thumbprint.

What do you think the next sentence out of the teller's mouth will be?

An old joke goes something like this:

A constitutional legalist goes to cash his check.

Teller asks for fingerprint.

Man refuses and cites several Constitutional passes.

Teller calls manager.

Manager comes over and asks problem. Teller relates story.

Manager leans over and whispers, "Listen, you dumb cracker. Put your fingerprint on that check or I will rip your arm off and beat you with it."

Manager walks off.

Man hurriedly puts thumbprint on check.

Teller asks why he wouldn't do that for her.

He says, "You didn't explain it that clearly."

Steve

[Duane Bozarth]

" [e-mail]" wrote: ....

To find some property in a pawn shop assuming you're in an area that isn't so large as to make the number possible essentially uncountable is at least within reason. Thinking you'll track down unknown suspect(s) via a home-grown fingerprint kit isn't...

[Duane Bozarth]

Andy Simms wrote: ....

We pay for our roadways w/ (mostly) fuel excise taxes...

[Duane Bozarth]

....

....

Excepting you don't have (and can't require) the data to populate the proposed database...

[William.Deans]

[e-mail]

I did. "It's a requirement."

[Duane Bozarth]

I don't know that you require it, nor do I know that you can't ask, but I would suspect the likelihood of getting willing tenants will go down exponentially--I know I certainly would not do so just on general principles.

Other subtrefuges may or may not be legal but would probably not yield admissible evidence as you would probably have chain of custody issues even if you could manage to execute the process.

My question is why do you think it's likely a tenant is the culprit anyway? If so, would seem like you're not screening tenants very carefully to begin with. Of course, if you're renting in a low-rent district, that could very well just be an occupational hazard.

[gfretwell]

isn't worth it to

Thell the cops you saw the bad guy smoking a joint. They will turn heaven and earth to catch him.

[Andy Simms]

Good luck with that. I can't speak for anybody else, but if a landlord was to require my fingerprints in order to get a lease, I'd find another landlord.

Yes.

You'd have a very hard time getting usable prints from a doorknob. Because it gets turned, the prints are likely to be smeared and unusable.

[Andy Simms]

Let's see now:

1) You have no expertise in lifting fingerprints. 2) You don't have access to the fingerprints of your tenants. 3) You have no legal way of obtaining either of the above.

[Andy Simms]

One might expect that you'd do the obvious thing and ask the police for the reason.

[Andy Simms]

Money isn't really the issue. Say they had a dozen cops strip your car to pieces, find every possible shred of evidence for your tool theft, and do every bit of investigating possible. What do you think the chances are that they'll catch the thief AND successfully prosecute? I'd bet the chances are actually fairly low.

[Edwin Pawlowski]

Never thought of that. You mean no one has ever lost a tool from a locked box on a truck? That sure is good news, now I can get rid of that safe for valuable papers and jewelry. I'll keep it in the truck box.

[FDR]

The point being it's better protection than what he had.

[CL (dnoyeB) Gilbert]

Move to a city where they give a shit. Thats all you can do. Well you can start a big movement if you have the time and patience...

[Pop]

Even you seem to agree with this, listing a whole : lot of reasons why the autobahn is safe that have nothing to do with : speed. ===> I do agree pretty much with what's stated in this posting, not necesarily what was in the other posts.

Maybe we should work on doing some of those things here. Not : the tax and make things expensive part. But doing a better job of : driver education and testing, getting after left hand dicks and people : who drive unsafely would be a good start, instead of handing out easy : speeding tickets to raise revenue. ===> Yeah, I sort of agree, except that speeding tickets aren't handed out to raise revenue, and there is no direct quota other than statistical records. When one set of troopers hands out x tickest on the M1 on Sunday and one other one never hands any out, it's pretty obvious something's wrong with his performance. That's the only quota-like thing that goes on, and I also agree that some will make the "norm" into their own quota; there are bad apples in every barrel but fortunately not that many IMO.

===> My apologies for that rude comment: It doesn't say what I meant and even sounds rude to me on rereading it. I really intended to say that I wish there were more verifiable means of explaining things instead of just my words. Sorry! And, FWIW, I agree with your synopsis above. And if you think OUR gas is expensive ... !! :

Regards,

Pop

[Duane Bozarth]

" [e-mail]" wrote: ....

None I deal with have ever asked and they won't get if they do... "Can" and "Get" are two differing things...

Well, one thing comes to my mind is the question of what Fair Housing and other state/local jurisdictional laws/rules say...

I frankly don't care, but I think I can predict the response... :)

Well, you can do what you want...I don't give SSN out willingly, either.

....

Why are they any more interested than the run-of-the-mill crackhead off the street who just happened to be wandering by when you put them there?

[Duane Bozarth]

"CL (dnoyeB) Gilbert" wrote: ....

And which city would that be??? :)

[John Willis]

On Sat, 13 Aug 2005 13:02:14 -0500, "HeyBub" scribbled this interesting note:

You live in Texas?

-- John Willis [e-mail] (Remove the Primes before e-mailing me)

[Curly Sue]

[e-mail]

be useless anyway.

Don't bother. There is something called "chain of custody" for evidence that they don't emphasize on the crime shows. Evidence collected by you will be so dubious that it wouldn't hold up in court. It has nothing to do with your skills or personal integrity, so don't be offended :)

You won't get access to databases, if that's what you're thinking about.

No. Even law enforcement aren't allowed to run fingerprints for their own curiousity or for citizens.

Your best bet is to install a security camera, particularly if you think it was one of your tenants.

I know how frustrating it can be to deal with the police re: break-ins. Sometimes they are very good; other times they obviously resent being taken away from something more important like a donut break!

Sue(tm) Lead me not into temptation... I can find it myself!