OT - Phillips Head Screws On Brake Rotors

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The recent thread about impact wrenches got me thinking...
I need to change the rotors on my Honda Oddessy. They have 2 large phillips head screws countersunk into the rotors which have to be removed before the rotors will come off.
I don't know if they are the original rotors (70K on the van, I've had it since 40K with the same rotors) but I'm thinking that with all the heat generated by braking, they might not be the easiest screws to remove.
I didn't want to try backing out the screws with a huge phillips head driver for fear of damaging them, then having to drill them out, etc.
Before I take everything apart (again) does anybody have any thoughts on the best way to remove the screws, assuming a big screw driver doesn't work?
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2 words: impact driver http://www.kk.org/cooltools/archives/000723.php
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On Fri, 7 Aug 2009 11:53:15 -0700 (PDT), Eric in North TX

Good answer!
And a pre-soak of the screws with a penetrating liquid (maybe overnight).
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What they said. The hand impact, a properly fitting Phillips bit, and a BFH is the Right Tool For The Job.
Requred to remove stubborn (car) door hinge screws, as well. Nothing else is likely to work.
Good news is, you probably already have a BFH, and if you don't have an impact driver, they are not expensive.
good luck
nate
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I'll look into it, but...
From the website...
"although it takes some skill to keep it on the bolt when you hammer it."
And they seem to be talking about a socket over a bolt, not a bit in a phillips head screw.
It's hard to tell the size of the screwdriver bolts from the pictures, but none of them look big enough to fit securely in the large philips head screws on my rotor.
I'll stop by Sears and see what they look like close up.
Thanks!
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On Fri, 7 Aug 2009 13:57:23 -0700 (PDT), DerbyDad03

My wrench came from Sears many years ago.
"6 pc. impact driver set lets you free frozen or rusted screws. Each hammer blow develops 200 ft. lb. of torque. Includes 1/2 in. sq. drive tool, bit holder, 3/8 in. slotted and Nos. 2, 3 and 4 Phillips bits."
Same as this pic:
http://www.toolnet.co.za/images/47641.jpg
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Oren wrote:

I have removed them many times and impact(same Sears set)is the way to go. Often they only need a tap and comes out easy. But then...
GA
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Oren wrote:

Mine is 40 years old. Indispensable when you need it. I bought it for working on my motorcycle. It eliminated stripped philip heads.
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Bob F wrote:

I could add - the trick of it is that it applies huge force inward on the bit at the same time as it turns hard, thus making sure the bit doesn't slip out of the head, and unloading the screw threads at the same time.
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I got something like that, many years ago. Never had any luck with it. Might end up buying another one, and see if my technique has improved.
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Christopher A. Young
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On Fri, 07 Aug 2009 11:53:15 -0700, Eric in North TX wrote:

Absolutely. Just had to do this on my son's Kia. Took about 5 seconds to conclude that a normal phillips was completely useless. Then I remembered that when my FIL died several years ago one thing I inherited was a hand impact driver.
Murphy's law was not enforced that day so I actually found the darn thing (having never used it prior to that) and it took three blows on one screw and only one on the other. Had a hell of a time getting the second screw separated from the drive head though.
While on the topic, WHAT are the engineers thinking in this application? Wouldn't a torx, square drive, or just about anything be better suited to such an application compared to a phillips head?
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Rick Brandt wrote:

I'm not sure why they're even required. One would think a simple indexing pin would suffice.
nate
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re: "One would think a simple indexing pin would suffice.
Or *nothing* like just about every other car I've done brakes on.
My son's Mitsubishi Gallant not only has nothing holding his rotors on, but they even provide 2 threaded holes so you can drive bolts into the rotor and force it off the hub if it gets stuck.
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DerbyDad03 wrote:

A lot of German cars use the screws. I was told that it was to locate the rotor more precisely than can be done by the lug studs, FWIW. It's also helpful on cars that use lug bolts instead of lug studs (BMW, VW) so you don't have to try to line up the wheel, rotor AND hub at the side of the road after you've gotten a flat (on the non-drive end of the car, of course, so it's all flailing around under there.)
But as I said, I don't see why a simple pin pressed into the hub to mate with a hole in the rotor wouldn't accomplish the same thing...
nate
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Now, that's thoughtful. I had a van, the back drums didn't want to come off. I finally jacked it up, put in reverse, and used a grinder and drill to take the center part down a tiny bit.
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Had a pickup with that issue. Bud was a pro fleet mechanic and I took it by his shop. I had already soaked the hub with Break Away with my efforts. He jacked it up, gave em a couple of good whacks with a hand sledge and they came right off. I would have feared cracking or distorting them. He says nope. Never had any issues with them afterwards.
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wrote:

2 words: impact driver http://www.kk.org/cooltools/archives/000723.php
Yes, that's what I used to use on my Honda 90.
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brudot had written this in response to http://www.thestuccocompany.com/maintenance/Re-OT-Phillips-Head-Screws-On-Brake-Rotors-387731-.htm :
I just changed rotors on my daughter's 2004 Honda Oddessy today. I used a hand held impact driver to remove the all but two screws. Two would not loosen and the heads were starting to strip and the driver bit was distorting. I applied heat to the heads until cherry red (happened quickly with welding torch) and they came out with little difficulty.
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brudot had written this in response to http://www.thestuccocompany.com/maintenance/Re-OT-Phillips-Head-Screws-On-Brake-Rotors-387731-.htm :
Eric in North TX wrote:

-------------------------------------
I appologize if this is a duplicate post, I'm new. I did this rotor job today on my daughter's honda oddessy and used a hand held impact tool. All the screws came out except two. The screw heads and driver bit started to distort so I had to resort to heating the heads to cherry red with a welding torch. They then came out with litte effort using the impact tool.
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On Thu, 22 Oct 2009 14:28:17 -0700, "Jon Danniken"

If they don't know the difference, I don't think he can be spamming, which requires intention. I think you're awfully hard on this guy, whose post was quite interesting.
(I would have used a propane torch and it wouldn't have gotten so hot so fast. OTOH, I don't have a welding torch. :) )
The only advertising was their name in the url, one line. I know plenty of people with a longer sig than that.
And loads of newsgroups are quoted on the web. This one is in real time it seems, at least some of the time. So they can, afaik, really participate.
To Brudot, it is a lot easier and better in many ways (no advertising, full screen text, more control, much much easier to refer to prior posts, ability to cross post to mulitple ngs when appropriate) to read newsgroups with a newsreader, like Agent of Thunderbird, etc. and there are afaict NO advantages to reading on the web. You should learn about it. But afaic, you're welcome to read the way you are.
Remove nopsam to write me.
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