OT: "Palestinians" ?

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[lost the attribution]

it would be easier to develop exports like flowers had some of them not destroyed the greenhouses left behind in the expulsions of 2005:
The Greenhouse propaganda--How Gazan history is being ... Notwithstanding the destruction that had already been wrought, wealthy American philanthropists led by the Gates foundation and James Wolfensohn, ... If pro-Israel pundits admit that Israel killed the Gaza greenhouse project ... http://www.mondoweiss.net/2014/08/propaganda-dehumanize-palestinian ...
Israel opens ground operation in Gaza - Baltimore Sun The greenhouses were destroyed and Hamas chose confrontation with Israel instead of transforming Gaza into the Singapore of the region. Despite the choice, Israel daily sent in food, medicine and fuel as well as supplying electricity to Gaza. http://articles.baltimoresun.com/2014-07-31/news/bs-ed-israel-gaza-2014073 ...
Palestinian militants ransack former Gush Katif greenhouses ... Damage is irreparable; international donors had purchased the greenhouses from evacuated settlers for benefit of the Palestinians. http://www.haaretz.com/news/palestinian-militants-ransack-former ...
Palestinian Behavior in Gaza: Lord of the Flies starring ... Within hours of the Palestinians' occupation of Gaza, the greenhouses were RBP. It took the Palestinians but hours to turn the gardens they were given into barren and sterile deserts. Now, ... and mindless destruction of good things that are given to them by well-meaning people. http://www.omdurman.org/tpb.html
Gaza Arabs Get Second Chance on Greenhouses US gives Gaza Arabs a second chance, providing them with new greenhouses after they demolished the Gush Katif originals. http://www.israelnationalnews.com/News/News.aspx/139012
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On Tuesday, August 12, 2014 11:47:02 PM UTC-4, cycjec wrote:

Another good example of the difference in behavior, culture, ethics, approache to problems, etc. It's obvious from so many points like this which party is the totally irrational one. As I said before, the Israeli withdrawl from Gaza itself is a prime example. Israel withdrew unconditionally, in a major peace overture. The response from the Palestinians was to start importing rockets from Iran and firing them into Israel. Soon they elected Hamas as their govt. Then folks point to Israel maintaining security checkpoint around Gaza as unreasonable, as mistreatment? If the Palestinians had just responded to Israels major step by living in peace for a while instead of firing rockets, those checkpoints would have been gone long ago. You'd have to be a loon to think that Israel wants those checkpoints for any reason other than stopping as much flow of weapons into Gaza as they can, to protect themselves.
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On 8/13/2014 9:25 AM, trader_4 wrote:

I'll admit, I really don't understand why so many US folks hate Israel. Especially in light of the Gaza residents and their behavior.
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Stormin Mormon wrote:

I don't understand why so many US Christians consider Israel to be the 51st state. The ones that really worry me are those that are trying to line up all the Jews in the 'Holy Land' so Armegeddon can begin on schedule.
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On Wed, 13 Aug 2014 09:52:13 -0400, Stormin Mormon

Maybe they do not like the idea of a bunch of eastern Europeans invading and conquering a foreign land right after we fought a bloody war against two other countries for doing the same thing.
In retrospect some find it easy to understand why the American Indians were so pissed at Custer.
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Unless you are a palestinian living in the West Bank. If so you can have your property taken, simply because some European wants to "settle" there and you do not get to vote. Israel has 3 options 1. They can be a Jewish state 2. They can be a democracy 3. They can maintain their present borders.
Pick any TWO.
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On Wed, 13 Aug 2014 09:35:49 -0700 (PDT), trader_4

I am referring to the fact that the Netanyahu family is from Belarus Begin is from Russia Herzog is from Ireland Shamir is from Russia Perez is from Poland Mier is from Ukraine Yari is from Russia Ben Gurion is from Poland
... the list goes on
It is simply true that most of the "founders" of Israel, were in Europe before and in most cases even during WWII. Their family has to go back 4 or 5 centuries to find anyone who lived in Palestine or anywhere within 1000 miles of there. That is not true of the people calling themselves Palestinian
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On Wednesday, August 13, 2014 2:55:53 PM UTC-4, snipped-for-privacy@aol.com wrote:

Well, they were, in many cases driven out of Europe with anti-Semitism, pogroms and worse. I wouldn't call them arriving in what is today Israel "invading and conquering", anymore than the immigration anywhere else. I'd say it's Palestinians thinking like that, continuing to deny Israels right to exist at all, that's the core of the problem. What do you expect? 8 million people to get up and leave? And which population has made a success of their country and which still lives in shambles? I know you're gonna try to blame Israel for that, but it's obvious where the real problems are. Did you read the post about what the Palestinians did with the greenhouses that Jews paid to have left there when Israel withdrew their settlements? Like destructive termites, the Palestinians destroyed them, instead of using them. That's why they have 50% unemployment and poverty. It's like thinking if you're nice to Bin Laden or Charlie MAnson, it's going to work....
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They are not a democracy as long as they deny the Palestinians the vote
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Since when does your belief in a particular god allow you to take someone else's land?
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If someone came into my yard waving an old book and said they were promised my land, I would shoot at them.

Fuck no.
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On Wednesday, August 13, 2014 1:53:27 PM UTC-7, snipped-for-privacy@aol.com wrote:

Never heard of the Israeli Law of Return. Famous quote: "You're entitled to your own opinions, but not to your own facts."
HB
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On Wednesday, August 13, 2014 4:53:27 PM UTC-4, snipped-for-privacy@aol.com wrote:

You make it sound like the Palestinians had their own country and one day the Jews "invaded and conquered them". In fact, Palestinians have been living all over the area, mostly in what is today Gaza, the West Bank, and many live today in the state of Israel. There are also people with Palestinian roots living in Jordan and other Arab countries. In the area that is now under Gaza, the West Bank, and Israel, that area was part of the Ottoman empire. Then it was under British rule following WWI. Jordan controlled the West Bank, Eqypt controlled Gaza until the 1967 war. There was never a Palestinian state. It looks like post WWI is when the Palestinian identity and call for a state of their own began. They had that chance right after WWII, when the UN came up with a plan that would have created a state for Jews, a state for the Palestinians and an independent Jerusalem, under international administration. Given an imperfect world, a muddled history, it seems like a reasonable plan to me. The Palestinians would have had a country of their own. The Jews thought it was reasonable too and were in favor of it. The Palestinians rejected it. A short time later, the British rule over the area was due to end, and just days before that, with no other choice really left, Israel declared itself a state, in effect putting into place part of the UN proposed solution. The Arab nations then attacked Israel. That history doesn't sound to me like Jews showing up, invading, conquering.

And why exactly not? Who sets the rules on who exactly can immigrate where and why? I thought most of the world, you're free to emigrate to wherever you want.
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On Wed, 13 Aug 2014 16:15:58 -0400, snipped-for-privacy@aol.com wrote:

They didn't TAKE the land, and it wasn't because they believed in a "particular god". The land was given to them by the United Nations when they were basically hounded out of every eastern european country they had settled in after their ancestors had been driven out of their "home territory" which was in the general area of what is now Israel, including the West Bank.
Back before they were scattered, what are now the "palestinians" and the Jews and Christians lived intermingled in the whole territory now known as Palestine and Israel, as well as parts of all the surrounding countries. Since they could not live in harmony, the area was devided into an arab state and a Jewish state, and an internationally monitored city of Jerusalem, to be accessible to all.
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There was no "agreement" until after the invasion and the only justification the Eastern Europeans had was some vague promise in the bible that they were entitled to move into a land 1000 miles away that they had no real claim on.

Nothing in the 14th amendment says anything about moving to Palestine and building a house on someone else's land. In fact, if you want to go that way, it would be prohibited by the 5th and 6th amendment

Certainly if they are prepared to buy the land from a willing seller.
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On Wed, 13 Aug 2014 14:19:28 -0700 (PDT), Higgs Boson

Where is the right of return in international law?
How about that for a fact?
Why did we spend $100 billion kicking Saddam out of Kuwait? He said he had the right to go there and cited some ancient text, How about the Germans in the Sudetenland or the Russians in Crimea? They certainly had far more recent history there.
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On Wed, 13 Aug 2014 17:42:05 -0400, snipped-for-privacy@snyder.on.ca wrote:

You ignore the war they had to take that land and the terrorism against the British before 1948.
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Oren wrote:

If he's Reformed, maybe not. The right wing Orthodox don't care much for American Jews, although they do like the money.
Remember when the schwarzer Jews from Ethiopia made aliyah? That went over big although the politically expedient thing was to decide they were from the lost tribes.
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snipped-for-privacy@snyder.on.ca wrote:

You should watch 'Exodus' for some background.
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wrote:

Yeah a movie made about a fictional story in the bible. That is history. It is strange that Moses was in the desert, presumably the Sinai for 40 years and there is not one speck of evidence of that in the archeological record
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