OT: Oil Spill. There are two men...

[krw]

The "fishermen down south" are being taken pretty good care of, actually. Many are turning out to be thieving bastards, as one might expect when free money is being handed out.

[krw]

You must be an Obamaniac. Being "held accountable" "the subject of show trial". BP *has been* shaken down, in classical Chicago style. Jesse couldn't have done better.

[Kurt Ullman]

Yeah, he did expect the mayor and the state to evacuate the city. Wasn't his responsibility, never was, probably never will be. FEMA is not and never has been tasked with doing anything other than responding and helping the LOCALS. FEMA doesn't run things, they help with organization and getting federal resources to the area after the fact. Longer term they help states and localities replace local infrastructure, get loans and grants to individual, etc. Emergency planning and response is a local responsibility. Every disaster plan I am familiar over the last 30 years always has as its baseline that the locals will have to deal with everything for at least three days before help will arrive. If it gets there earlier, that is a bonus. That is then translated further down in the suggestions to the public that THEY have 3 days of water, supplies, medicines, etc., available to them.

[norminn]

News flash: If people are hired to assist in the cleanup, the pay they receive from BP will not apply against their loss claims...kind of a "double dip"? The claims process will probably attract thousands of crooks..one can just imagine.

[krw]

...and how about that golf game?

[krw]

You can't fix PROTEUS. The vet's already done it.

[trader4]

I think you're being too hard on Norminn. Norminn must mean that Bush should have known that local and state officials like Ray Nagin were too stupid to call for an evacuation of the city until it was too late. Remember all those local school busses we saw flooded, just sitting there? I guess they could figure out how to use them for a field trip to a zoo, but it was up to Bush to tell them what to do in case of a hurricane

[krw]

Why do you let everyone else do your work? If you want a credible conspiracy theory about the Bin Ladens blowing up the oil rig, start it yourself!

[norminn]

The target was the coast, not NO or Louisiana....NO got the worst of it, handicapped by federal policies (levees, dredging, shipping channels, etc.). Where was Nagin to send 100,000 people?

I've pondered some of the news clips lately, showing crews cleaning up beaches in La....95 degree heat, plastic haz-mat suits, and the ones I've seen appear to be all or almost all black men. Nobody in their right mind would suit up like that! There were photos of absorbent booms that had been held in place with bamboo poles...why weren't those marsh-loving locals out there just tying simple anchors to the booms? Obama should confiscate all the news mics so folks will have more to do than howl for money. The gov. was yelling that boats were ready to help with skimming, but the CG can't turn loose every loser with a rust bucket that floats, without nav. and communication equipment. Obama, obama, obama..bullshit. Why weren't the parish presidents prepared? They, more than any others, knew the risks and the geography. There will be hell to pay, regardless of the outcome of the cleanup, with health claims from breathing hydrocarbons and the smoke....9/11 deja vu. When people started attacking Adm. Allen, they really lost a lot of points with me...Send in the military? We had two wars goin' on and North Korea getting nasty.

[norminn]

clipped

The most curious thing about the whole mess is that I haven't heard the "t" word once :o)What a gold mine!

[Kurt Ullman]

In article , " [e-mail]" wrote: >

A lot of the fed BS was driven by local politics and the local CongressCritters. Main problem that exists to this day is games being played with zoning, graft off the top, etc. .

Ahh.. the Coast Guard is considered military. From there website: "The United States Coast Guard is a military, multimission, maritime service within the Department of Homeland Security and one of the nation's five armed services." It is the only US Armed Force that is allowed to operate in a law enforcement capacity within US Borders without additional authorizations from DC. I

[norminn]

Yes. Most of us know that.

Let's thank our lucky stars the mess is only as bad as it is now...no hurricanes. Yet.

[Oren]

Tell me they both have experience for something like this visualization.

PBS video

_Need To Know_ aired on PBS last night -- what is really going on for those harmed.One business was down by 85% and another is losing his nest egg (Motel).

Here is the episode:

[gfretwell]

Not totally true. The National Guard works for the state and can be called in by the governor..

[Kurt Ullman]

They are not considered *US* Armed Forcers when they are acting under the authority of the state government. In a federalized capacity the Posse Comitatus Act specifically mentions the National Guard as one of the Forces who will not have law enforcement authority. It's been about 20 years since I last worked directly with a Guard unit and then it was more manpower and logistics during a flood where the local constabulary was still intact. I don't recall what (if any) arrest authority the garden variety Guardsman has under state command.

[Oren]

I think what Kurt said is true. The CG can travel into federal waters. The NG is limited on distance.

The CG can fire upon ships failing to obey orders to stop in federal waters.

In other words, the CG can fire without direction from Washington?

[Kurt Ullman]

By Washington I meant the political side. The Coasties are handled a lot like the Guard under Posse Comitatus. If, in wartime, a portion of the Coast Guard were subsumed within the Department of the Navy, as it was during World War II, that portion would lose its federal police power authority and responsibility over the federal law enforcement duties of its civilian mission. PC does give the regular Armed Forces some leeway in that Troops can be used under the order of the President of the United States pursuant to the Insurrection Act, as was the case during the 1992 Los Angeles Riots. Under 18 U.S.C. ? 831, the Attorney General may request that the Secretary of Defense provide emergency assistance if civilian law enforcement is inadequate to address certain types of threats involving the release of nuclear materials, such as potential use of a nuclear or radiological weapon. Although I did not see anything that gave them police powers per se (such ability to effect arrests, etc.) Interestingly enough immediately following Katrina the Armed Forces were given authority to act on US soil to restore public order after a disaster such as a hurricane. That authorization was repealed two years later.

[aemeijers]

If the ship they are chasing won't stop when hailed, or is shooting at them, sure. They are still considered US Naval vessels, and have similar rules of engagement. In practice, of course, if their comms are working, they will be calling uphill as soon as the situation gets hairy. I don't think a cutter captain would be likely to fire on a displayed-foreign-flag vessel without calling in, unless he was taking fire. But 'a shot across the bow' is well established in maritime law as 'STOP, DAMNIT!' A vessel captain ignores that at his peril.

Standard disclaimer- IANAL.

[HeyBub]

Obviously a federal requirement.

Why not? The federals licensed an unsafe oil platform with a couple hundred people aboard?

[HeyBub]

[e-mail] wrote: .

Well, let's see (I'll omit the qualifications where they're obvious): State: Colin Powell & Condi Rice Treasury: Paul O'Neill (served under Nixon, Ford, Reagan, Bush) - John Snow, economist, served under Nixon & Ford, Director National Highway Administration Defense: Donald Rumsfeld Interior: Gale Norton, Interior Department, Colorado Attorney General Attorney General: John Ashcroft, Missouri Attorney General, Governor Agriculture: Ann Veneman, California Secretary of Food & Agriculture Transportation: Norman Manetta (D), former Secretary of Commerce

and so on. All on this list, and most of the rest, have had experience running large government agencies.