OT: Oil Spill. There are two men...

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... that have extensive experience with the oil business AND extensive experience with government bureaucracy and agency interaction.
President Obama could easily call on them to bring their expertise into play instead of an ex-governor, an academic physicist, and others who are obviously out of their depth.
The men are George H.W. Bush and George W. Bush.
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HeyBub wrote:

stock the Bin Laden family owns? Bush? Saudis?
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On 6/18/2010 12:05 PM, snipped-for-privacy@earthlink.net wrote:

I own some BP stock. You might call me one of the pensioners that will be hurt by Obama's attack on BP. I didn't vote for him, but now I'm not going to vote for him a second time ;)
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wrote:

I'm sure there are some fishermen down south who find these pension comments pretty shallow, especially if the comments come from twits who invested too much of their money in one stock.
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-snip-
Attack!? You must be with Joe Barton who apologized to BP for being held accountable. . .

Amen! I can't even imagine what it must be like to see the place a fisherman [and maybe 5-6 generations before him/her] have used as a playland & source of their lively-hood turned into an oil pit. They won't just lose some dividends for a year or so- they'll lose their boat, their home, their second car & every toy they own.
I'll bet the families of the 11 guys who died are feeling a bit pinched, too.
I don't hold any animosity for BP. They got caught cutting corners & from what I've seen they aim to try to make things as good as they can---- But the whiners who are bitching because their stock dumped & they'll miss a dividend can kiss my ass. If you can't take that hit you should put your money in something other than stocks.
Jim
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On 6/18/2010 4:15 PM, Jim Elbrecht wrote:

I said "some BP stock" which I think is less than 100 shares. Loss will not cripple me.
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You must be an Obamaniac. Being "held accountable" <> "the subject of show trial". BP *has been* shaken down, in classical Chicago style. Jesse couldn't have done better.
<snip more rantings of an idiot>
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On Fri, 18 Jun 2010 15:45:01 -0400, "JoeSpareBedroom"

The "fishermen down south" are being taken pretty good care of, actually. Many are turning out to be thieving bastards, as one might expect when free money is being handed out.
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snipped-for-privacy@att.bizzzzzzzzzzzz wrote:

News flash: If people are hired to assist in the cleanup, the pay they receive from BP will not apply against their loss claims...kind of a "double dip"? The claims process will probably attract thousands of crooks..one can just imagine.
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GW Bush ran an oil company, wrecked it, and left investors holding the bag. You are a funny guy.
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JoeSpareBedroom wrote:

Yes, but he knows something about the oil bidness.
His daddy owns Zapata. He ran that when he and his partner, Hugh Liedke, decided their company was getting too big. Bush took the offshore partsm continuing the name Zapata Oil. Liedke took the rest. It had a funny name; I think it was called Pennzoil.
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HeyBub wrote:

--
LSMFT

I haven't spoken to my wife in 18 months.
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LSMFT wrote:

Agreed (but not about the idiot part); technology is only half of the problem. The remainder, as I tried to point out, is understanding and dealing with the bureacracy and all the interlocking government agencies involved.
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[...]
Quoting:

== The sheer fury of those affected by the disaster has not been adequately covered in the (corporate) media.
Time after time, local authorities have asked permission to implement practical suggestions which would have led to some instant local remediation, only to get NO REPLY or delayed or equivocal response from up the bureaucratic food chain.
Some locals are, I have read, about to take the law into their own hands, since the "authorities" aren't dealing with the situation.
Reminds me of one of the more HORRIBLE aspects of 9/11:
Over 300 firefighters were making their way up into the buildings,but never received the word to stand down, get out!!
Why?
Nobody had ever tested communications between the so-called disaster preparedness bureaucrats -- and these heroes, who died for the laziness, sloppiness, and negligence of those who should have KNOWN how to coummunicate with them!
I can't get this utter WASTE out of my mind!
Now it's 9/11 and Katrina all over again, but this time on a global scale as the oil makes its way up into the Gulf Stream. The eventual impacts on food supply and climate, not to mention the short-term misery of the workers and the destruction of habitat have yet to be widely covered in the (corporate) media.
While no-cojones Obama goes on TV to announce that he's setting up a commission to study the causes of the disaster.
Hasn't anybody informed him that the causes have been well known and widely publicized since nearly two months ago!
I had to vote for him, considering the alternative, but did not expect such a wimp. From the time he re-authorized torture and "extraordinary rendition", I gave up. Just holding on in the hope that he'll get more Supreme Court nominations. There, he can't do worse than the opposition.
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On 06/18/2010 11:11 PM, Higgs Boson wrote:

I actually was pleasantly surprised that GWB's SC nominees were fairly acceptable, given his apparent complete incompetence (or was it actual malice?) in every other regard. Blind squirrel, etc.
That said, while a self-identified conservative, I do believe that we need some balance on the SCOTUS not to mention that anymore "conservative" seems to come in a package with "religious right" and "social conservative" which I'm not exactly crazy about (that's called understatement.)
nate
--
replace "roosters" with "cox" to reply.
http://members.cox.net/njnagel
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Nate Nagel wrote:

hospital corporation that bilked Medicare for billions. I'd vote for Elliot Spitzer in a NY minute before I'd vote for this creep :o) I still can't get over the fact that nobody has apparently gone after the various board members of the banks that sold horrible mortgages...they certainly had the knowledge and the duty to correct their practices.
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Higgs Boson wrote:

It's been covered ad nauseum...I'm not into blaming victims, but there are lots of people affected who had a hand in disaster. Most directly, those with knowledge of safety violations who did nothing. The guys from the rig who have been interviewed spoke about repercussions when people stopped drilling over a safety issue. There are too many cheats and liars who believe rules are always for someone else, but those who did not halt unsafe practices are guilty on some level...they chose their high-paying jobs over reporting those practices. I know what it is like to lose a job for doing the RIGHT thing, and it hurts real, real bad for a long time.
They all want BP paying the costs NOW...the locals are getting just what they asked for AGAIN. If OSHA or other rules say hazmat suits and training are needed for oil cleanup, then BP would be insane to allow otherwise. CNN has been howling because they haven't been allowed to talk to the people working on cleanup...hell, there, again...they are on BP's payroll...they aren't being paid to chat with the media.
If people vote for the guy who saves their job, they had better know how stinky it will be and who is connected.
This sure as hell isn't Obama's Katrina...Bush had at least 5 days of dire warnings about Katrina and did NOTHING. There was no way Obama could have recognized the intensity of the disaster early on...there are THOUSANDS of rigs in the GoM and this one burned and went to the bottom. Obama has hell to pay for stopping new drilling and would have hell to pay if he didn't stop new drilling and someone got a hangnail.
A lot of the economic impact from this disaster has the same root as the housing mess...folks overextend, don't have savings to get by on. I have great sympathy for all involved, but have to be realistic.
I learned something on 9/11 when someone said the firefighters were running into the fire when everyone else was running out. My dad was a firefighter and never spoke about the real dangers of his work, to protect me. He lived by the book, stood up for his men and died less well-off than some who made politically comfortable adjustments.
I'd like to do a door-to-door survey and see how many people want "small government"; they sure as hell want government to take responsibility for everything that happens, including acts of God. If folks don't want floods or oil spills, they should not live where they are 6" above sea level on a body of water loaded with oil rigs.
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staged, 5 Disaster medical units were on standby and ready to deploy. Trucks with expendables, generators, workers were all up and staged nearby. This was a fairly standard response and most things were done that could be done, initially. FEMA is, always has been, and probably always will be a support agency only. That is their mission statement. That is what they are able to do legally. They are there to help, not displace the locals. The problem with Katrina was largely two fold. One is that they followed their disaster plan to the level. At the time, the Superdome was never supposed to be stocker or staffed as a shelter. It was a place solely to ride out the storm and then disperse immediately to regular shelters. Unfortunately, no emergency response planner at any level over several generations of planners had thought about what comes next if the other shelters aren't available. The other (and part of this does go to Bush) is that there was a perfect storm in that all three groups (local, state and federal) should not have been let out of the house without adult supervision. None of them did much the first couple of days but dither. Most of this at the state and local level since they still have most of the power. But there was still a synergy here. You will note that the only agency that really was able to function coherently in the first few days were the Coasties and that was largely because they could come and do things on their own authority w/o having to screw with the locals.
There was no way Obama

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Kurt Ullman wrote:

Rubbish....three search and rescue teams? Bush's federal agency warned clearly and loudly and persistently that this would be a Cat 5. Bush's federal agency knew the levees could not take a Cat 5. Did he expect the mayor to evacuate the city and reinforce the levess before the storm arrived?
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Yeah, he did expect the mayor and the state to evacuate the city. Wasn't his responsibility, never was, probably never will be. FEMA is not and never has been tasked with doing anything other than responding and helping the LOCALS. FEMA doesn't run things, they help with organization and getting federal resources to the area after the fact. Longer term they help states and localities replace local infrastructure, get loans and grants to individual, etc. Emergency planning and response is a local responsibility. Every disaster plan I am familiar over the last 30 years always has as its baseline that the locals will have to deal with everything for at least three days before help will arrive. If it gets there earlier, that is a bonus. That is then translated further down in the suggestions to the public that THEY have 3 days of water, supplies, medicines, etc., available to them.
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