OT karate chop?

[mm]

Actually, it was before anyone in the US talked about karate, in the

50's or 60's when one would often see someone knock another unconscious by hitting him at the base of the skull, neck, somewhere.

A) Can you kill someone this way. I probably wouldn't want to do this.

B) Can you knock someone out this way, even if you only have moderate strength?

C) Where exactly do you have to hit him,

D) and what percent of your maxium strength would you use / do you think is necessary?

I ask because the news tonight talked about the L.A. Giants fan who was almost beaten to death by two other men who were at the game. There was a slighly similar incident in Balitmore a few weeks ago. Were I to have seen this, I don't know that I'd have nerve enough to hit the assailant in the face, hoping to knock him unconscious but more likely to cause him to turn and try to beat on me.

And even if I could win, there are guys smaller than I am, and women and girls, who could benefit if there were a way requiring less force to knock someone out. The incident in Baltimore involved 3 females, sort of, 2 kicking one who they had knocked down and was on the floor, and I wondered what my 5'2", 105 lb. ex would do if she had been there.

This used to be in the movies a lot, but it has disappeared, in favor of fights that go on for dozens of blows. So that I wonder if it was possible. Of course also in the 50's it was common for tv and movie killers to use a silencer on their automatic and that disappeared for

30 or 40 years, during which they only used pillows, returning only a few years ago.

[Pavel314]

Growing up in the U.S. in the 50's and early 60's it was generally called a "judo chop." We didn't hear about karate until the mid- or late-60's.

I took karate lessons many years ago. The base of the skull is a very dangerous place to hit someone, it could kill or knock someone out, according to the instructor.

The base of the skull, where it joins the neck, as I recall. Someone with more recent experience might be able to be more specific. I seem to recall that a chop to the side of the neck would also be incapacitating.

If you're in a fight and your life is in danger, hit with all you got.

The bridge of the nose and point of the chin are the main facial pressure points. Other than the eyes; use a Three-Stooge two-finger poke.

When someone put a silencer on a gun in the old movies, you knew he was a serious bad guy, whereas anyone can get a pillow to shoot through.

[Sonny]

In the rules of boxing and martial arts competitions, it is illegal to strike a person in the back of the head for a reason.

In street fighting, a strike to the nose, with the base of the palm, not your knuckles, will temporarily stun a victim, watering his eyes, giving you time to either strike further or escape. Never strike a person on the chin with your fist. The chin bone is structurally stronger than your fist bones. In street fighting and you are the underdog, spit in the face of your opponent and use his pause/surprise to escape.

The recent incidents of several persons attacking an innocent person calls for the immediate extermination of the assailants.... no questions asked. Disfunctional people, as that, need to be eliminated from society, as they remain a threat to decent society, i.e., not rehabilitatable.

In movies, anything is possible.

Sonny

[gfretwell]

I second the punch in the nose thing. That is what I taught my girls and it has saved both of them. It gets you a few seconds to get away.

If you think you can beat the homicide rap, hit them right in the throat with that little half closed fist. If you connect they can easily die so think of it just like you would shooting someone. You could easily be defending the same charge.

[mm]

My mistake. You're right on all points.

Now that I had something to look up, I wikied judo chop. It redirected to knifehand strike , something I don't think any American outside a martial arts school really calls it :) even they probably use Japanese or Chinese when they can. :) and says "familiar to many people as a karate chop, (in Japanese, shuto--uchi). " But the short article doesn't use the words judo chop, probably becuse the writer is 19 years old.

He is right about this part: "Fictional depictions The popularity of martial arts in mid to late 20th century gave rise to an exaggerated version of a knifehand strike widely used in American and British cinema, television, and animated cartoons. In common depictions, a character will deliver a single, precise-looking but relatively weak strike to the side of an opponent's neck, which instantly renders them unconscious but otherwise unharmed (in some versions, the blow is instantly fatal). This is frequently done from behind to an unaware adversary, often an enemy guard. The move became a staple of the spy genre through the 60s and 70s.[1]

As audiences became more aware of how implausible this move seemed, it gradually migrated to the realm of comedy. In these depictions, it is either used unexpectedly and found to work in absurd situations, or a character attempts to imitate what they saw in film, only to find it has no effect." I guess this last line is why I asked how hard you had to hit someone.

I plan to, and I think I would. But in the story below, I'm not in the fight yet. Still I wouldn't want to stand idly by while two or three guys beat an innconent guy to death, and I wouldn't want to kill them either, if only for the fact than even were it justified, I'd have big legal bills. And because I'd probably wonder, were they really beaing him to death, or only giving him a few bruises.

A poke that doesnt' do any permantent damage? That would scare the aggressor, but wouldn't it make him angry too, and make him come at me twice as hard once he saw he wasn't injured.

Yes, but even the vicious bad guys used pillows for 30 years. I didn't see s silencer for 30 years until I doubted that good ones existed. I don't have delusions, so I know they were in the old movies, but I thought, Maybe they made movies more accurate and dispensed with the what must have been fictional silencer, which would work 3 times in a row or more. And truly, how come the first bullet didn't blow out so much of the stuffing that the second bullet was just as loud as without a silencer? With a pillow, the person holding it compressed it and there was loads of stuffing for 100 bullets.

[HeyBub]

Exactly. Hitting your assailant - in the chin, nose, or back of the neck - has two things going against it:

1. You have to get close to your assailant to hit them, and
2. You run the risk on making them more angry.

No, the best course of action is to shoot the SOB from, say, twenty-five feet away, then go about your business contented.

[Jim Elbrecht]

-snip-

I like my Drill Instructor's idea better. Use your thumb and get behind the eyeball-- pop it out. He said it is a decided 'distraction'.

Jim

[The Daring Dufas]

My brother was a member of Army Special Forces and he told me of a unarmed combat move they were taught called the O'Neil. It involved forcefully placing the tip of your boot into the crotch of your opponent, preferably the action would lift your foe off of the ground momentarily. The move got its name from the loud sound made by your target and the position he wound up in. ^_^

TDD

[Country]

After reading the other responses, I will just stick with the Vulcan Neck Pinch.

-C-

[mm]

Another related question, especially for my ex, is about kneeing someone or kicking him in the groin.

Is this really as easy as they make it seem in the movies?

I would think it's hard to lift one's knee that high and with any force, and that the thigh bones might be protection for the crctch.

As to kicking a man in the groin, wouldnn't the woman have to be just the right distance from him to kick at just the right height?

Does anyone know of a case where this worked, or is it just another movie thing, like hitting someone with a revolver from 100 feet away, never hitting his horse, and never running out of bullets?

[Country]

You might want to stop watching movies and consider that almost no matter where you are, there are weapons all around you. Even a pocket full of change can be a weapon. Launch a hand full of change into a person's face and hope to nail them in the eyes. Think of the damage you can do with rocks, sticks, chairs, telephones, shoes, pepper spray or wasp and hornet spray etc. all before the attacker gets in close contact.

And if all that doesn't work, at least try to get in a few cutting remarks that will scar your attacker for life.

-C-

[willshak]

[e-mail] wrote the following:

With an open hand, strike upward with the heel of your hand to the nose. it can drive the bridge of the nose into the brain.

[krw]

Can't do much more strenuous fighting when you have a good dose of dysentery.

[krw]

Keys, laced though the fingers.

[krw]

Better:

Less recidivism.

[aemeijers]

IIRC the 'behind the scenes' writeups from when the movie was made, Ford was sick for several days of the in-country shooting. Dunno about the shooting scene in the bazaar, but for the earlier horseback escape scene, he could barely stand up. And we all thought his tired, frazzled, 'oh now what the hell?' expression during many of the scenes was just good acting.

I liked the #4 movie, in spite of the new kid, The period feel and set dressing was awesome, and Ford nailed the tired academic knowing he was really too old for field work, but unable to say no. I hope they don't do another sequel- better to go out on a high note.

[Steve B]

I read that the bazaar scene, he had dysentery, and was going to do a sword fight. Instead, he suggested to just shoot the guy, and everyone thought it would make a good scene, and take a LOT less time to shoot.

I have been around movie making. I have been an extra in several movies and tv shows. Making movies or TV is nothing like it seemed it would be like. They do everything out of sequence so nothing makes sense, and they do lots of takes on everything. Setup takes a long time, and the actual shooting is miniscule. After you see the movie or TV episode, you put it all together. But a lot of time, it's boring as watching paint dry. If you don't have anything to do, you can pick up $100-$200 for a day, but sometimes it's so much sitting around and so boring, if you got anything else going on, you just pass. If it's a cattle call (where they need lots and lots of extras), you don't get in on the grub, or much else.

They do have great food. All catered, and unlimited French club soda, can't recall the name of that overpriced stuff now. They have one of those chow wagons, but it's nothing like you'd see at a welding shop. Snitzy equipment and very very clean. Everything first cabin. The pay for being an extra was good, too, and even if they didn't use you, you got paid for showing up. More if you were in a scene, but had to have a SAG card to speak. And you got behind the ropes that kept the unwashed rabble out.

Steve

[Country]

I must have prematurely enunciated.

[Country]

The absolute best is to take off and nuke them from space. It's the only way to be sure.

-C-

[krw]

Yep, dysentery.

Didn't see it. Thought it had already gone on too long.