OT - Insurers dropping Chinese drywall policies

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Well said. I wish basic economics would be required in high school. Then people might understand how markets work.
Thanks, I was worried somebody would give me a bad time about it. Back to woodworking posts for me.
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On Oct 17, 2:51 am, snipped-for-privacy@optonline.net wrote:

It should be.
TMT
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It would appear that in this instance, home buyers
1) Had no clue that bad drywall could exist 2) Had no means to check what the builders installed 3) Were deceived by home builders, who likely knew everything but chose not to inform buyers.
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On Oct 17, 12:50 am, Ignoramus15879 <ignoramus15...@NOSPAM. 15879.invalid> wrote:

Most people didn't.

Well, yeah, it's kind of tough to test for something you don't know is a problem.

You think builders knowingly installed material they knew to be faulty? Huh?
R
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RicodJour wrote:

If that's all they can get? Sure.
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You honestly believe an established - notice I didn't say honest - builder would install something he _knew_ would come back to bite him in the but and result in lawsuits? I think that is just as likely to happen as your lawyer taking your money and doing nothing, or any other trade/profession screwing someone over when they knew they were going to get caught. Such things are in the 1 to 2 percent range at most.
Every builder's contract has a clause about conditions outside of their control and limiting their responsibility. The Ignorant one said the builders "knew everything" about the problem, and still installed it. There are essentially no cases, no mention, of defective drywall before the current Chinese created problem. How would these builders know that there would be a problem? No one had ever encountered it before.
R
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RicodJour wrote:

It was likely that, or loose his business when he couldn't fulfill the contract.
But I doubt that anybody "knew everything" about what was going on. So in that respect I'd concur with your last.
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cavelamb wrote:

Keep in mind that new drywall always has a slight odor, and there are a lot of other odors on a construction site. It isn't as obvious until it is installed in a fairly airtight home, when the fumes build up. The joint compound, new lumber, paint, caulking and other odors could mask a lot of odors, and there is a good chance that all the doors and windows are open while the drywall is hung, finished and painted. Most crews do an average house in a day or two. I helped some friends rebuild their home after a major fire. Three of us did the drywall entire house in two days. The bulk drywall is out in the open on a flatbed truck, where the fumes can't build up.
--
The movie \'Deliverance\' isn\'t a documentary!

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wrote:

Well, maybe not most of it. The 'squeal like a pig scene' was the next best thing. Read up sometime on what went on when they filmed that. =:O
R
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LOL...they are Republican home movies.
TMT
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Yeah, it's amazing how people jump to conclusions. I would think it likely that the builders or yard carrying the product didn't know anything about safety issues any more than the home buyer. Was every toy store that sold the Chinese toys aware that they contained lead?
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We now live in Las Vegas, where during the 2001-2007 time frame, hundreds of thousands of new homes were built during a real estate feeding frenzy. While we lucked out on the drywall issue here (several gyp mines locally and all local drywall), there were other alleged construction defects that were or are being litigated or negotiated. As far as I know, no contractor or subcontractor knowingly installed anything that would have harmed a home or the occupants. However, the litigators really had a feeding frenzy with construction defect suits.
One of the fights here involved the elimination of weep screeds at the bottom of stucco siding. Another involved Kitec plumbing fittings and flexible piping, while another involved a different reinforcement in slabs. There are also issues even with copper pipe that comes in contact with soil under a slab. In NC, we had the issue of disintegration of man made lap siding and delamination of man made stucco over foam.
My reason for mentioning this is to illustrate my belief that virtually any change from the old, tried and true methods or materials of construction carries risk of varying degree. Homes are built to last for generations and Murphy's Law applies to new materials, construction techniques, different suppliers and man made anything installed in a home. Even the most benign change from what's been done for years and years with success can result in a construction defect.
The insurance companies were dinged badly with the black mold issue of the 90's. Whenever somebody discovered mold, even after a window leaked for years, it was considered to be an insurable event. Now, the folk with drywall problems are feeling the spin-off effect. Insurance companies might exclude drywall related issues in policies, but some judge somewhere at some time will decide for the "social good" to make them responsible. Their only hope to escape this is to cancel or refuse to renew policies once they become aware of the drywall problem. I sure can't blame them, since it's a huge liability otherwise.
--
Nonny

Live a good and honorable life.
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Well said.
TMT
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In Las Vegas, Sun City Summerlin found defects in homes, built pre 1995. Homes with PEX pipes and some brass connectors (Zurn ??!). The connectors were made in Canada. They contained to much Zinc during the manufacturing and corroded years later, leaked behind stucco, caused mold, on and on.
The judge declared a class action case. IIRC, they went after the Canadian company and the builder.
It might still be pending - dunno.
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On Oct 17, 2:46 am, snipped-for-privacy@optonline.net wrote:

They are now.
And are liable from now.
TMT
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On Fri, 16 Oct 2009 23:04:31 -0700 (PDT), RicodJour

Seams to be a bit higher in the investment/financial services sector these days - and even 1 to 2 percent is WAY too high.

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Ed Pawlowski wrote:

No. A smart shopper would get one free, on Freecycle.org.
--
The movie \'Deliverance\' isn\'t a documentary!

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Capitalism at its finest. Give the customer exactly what they are willing pay for. That is why WalMart is making money and Macy's not so much.
--
An old friend once said "You don\'t live on the edge,
you\'re taking up way too much space."
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http://www.theplumber.com/theleaksgoon.html
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Isn't that just typically NOT, Government for the people by the people?
No matter how loud people yell 'Socialism' or some other label that they don't really understand anyway, honest, uncorrupted, caring governance is a political business that supposedly allows us to live together in hopefully civilized societies.
The lack of that is painfully obvious in places such as Mexico (Criminal gangs etc.) many places in Africa and elsewhere where war- lords control local society etc.
Weak, incomplete, corrupt government allows a 'cowboy/gangster' element consisting of paid lobbyists, industrial interests, organised crime, to control government while ineffectively regulated financial institutions and banking rip off the consumer (i.e. the people). And ultimately we pay for all those mistakes by higher taxes and erosion of our basic basic freedoms.
Blah, blah ..... and the pursuit of happiness etc.
Wake up; make government effective. One of the great weaknesses of so called 'Capitalism' is that it can reward the few, far too magnificently, while denying reasonable basic human needs to many.
Denying insurance coverage for something a citizen had no control over is inhuman. But in between gross negligence such as driving while impaired and causing death and inadvertent responsibility for something minor, there will be in-between situations. Finding out one's home has incorporated wall board now found to be smelly or even health hazardous seems to hardly be the responsibility of the person who now owns the home. Where were the import agencies, the building standards, the inspection agencies, the mortgage or loan people who authorized payments, the municipal authorities who issued an occupancy permit, the insurance company who accepted the premium thereby ruling the house was an 'Acceptable risk'?. Were they all incompetent and unregulated? Hmm! Some better governemnt needed, eh?
No matter how much somebody yells 'Individual freedom'.
OK. If I was building a shack out in the boondocks, out of scrap, with no running water and no electrcity and no services I would not expect an insurance company to cover me and/or any inspector to check up on my 'shed' next time I straightened a few used nails etc. But if someone prudently builds or buys in a well regulated town or city there should be effective governance and follow up on everything we do. Then action for correcting a problem placed on those responsible.
Commercial corps. often do this in their own interest. A recent example; my neighbour had deteriorating siding made from some sort of cement product. He was required to complain through the supplier to the manufacturer who visited and determined improper storage prior to installation. My neighbour has or will receive compensation not only for the material but also for the cost of labour/time (his own). Good corporation that; stands behind it's product even though the errror was by the local supplier representing that corporation.
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