OT "I laid off my son, today"

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What!? He must be a terrible mechanic. The shop I use has so much business.
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wrote:

automotive shop 3 days out of 5 without any danger of hitting anything. My brother's shop is one of the busier small shops (3 men, 5 bays including an alignment rack and A/C equipment - they handle just about anything) There are times when he has more work than they can handle - but more days when there's barely enough work for one man.
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On Oct 26, 5:38 pm, "Stormin Mormon"

I have been hesitating on posting this question for the past several days but Stormin Mormon you just convinced me to do so. As a contractor in Southern California (the stronghold of Democrats) I have been busy as a one armed paper hanger lately. A far cry from February to April of this year when I hardly had anyone call. I would appreciate any input from any contractors out there as to why. Tell your mechanic that maybe his son needs to join the Army like my son did because he didn’t want to get sewage and grease on his hands like me.
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If not for Obama's policies the father would likely also be laid off.
--
There are no stupid questions, but there are lots of stupid answers.

Larry Wasserman - Baltimore Maryland - lwasserm(a)sdf. lonestar. org
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Larry W wrote:

Many are. Bankruptcies are legion.
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Well, during the GWB time, we had about 5% unemployment. I believe that the spike in unemployment was due to the BHO tax increases, reckless spending, and many new regulations and other unfunded mandates.
--
Christopher A. Young
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On Oct 27, 6:50 am, "Stormin Mormon"

Read this and shut-up! http://www.marketwatch.com/story/reagan-insider-gop-destroyed-us-economy-2010-08-10?pagenumber=2 (you may have to copy/paste the url)
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On 10/27/2010 9:50 AM, Stormin Mormon wrote:

That unemployment number you are so fond of only counts those that were employed. Under W there was nearly a net loss of jobs his first term and a pathetic total over the whole 8 years.
As far as unfunded mandates, what about the Medicare Dug Bill W pushed through, there never was any funding for that. Nor were the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan ever funded. What about it? Nor were his tax cuts for the rich ever funded.
And just what benefit did we get out of deregulating derivatives? That was McCaine's chief economic advisor who snuck that through in the dead of night.
At this point it looks like you are just babbling talking points without any real knowledge. But blind faith is your thing, isn't it?
You should have just kept your OT hate to yourself.
Jeff

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Hey - be fair. Hedge fund managers need to live too. Do you have any idea what it costs for a decent landscaping service in southwestern Connecticut these days?
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While I more or less agree except with the tax cuts. That assumes that the government is entitled to some of your money just because it was there before. Also, you do realize that the cuts included taking the former 10% bracket down to nothing at all, correct?

majorities, so the Dems voted for it in droves. And "sneaking it through in the dead of night" included votes in both Houses-after committee meetings-- sending it to the conference committee and then back to both Houses. I'd have to look it up again, but IIRC, the vote in the Senate was by acclimation or voice vote.

--
"Even I realized that money was to politicians what the ecalyptus tree is to
koala bears: food, water, shelter and something to crap on."
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wrote:

Employment figures mean nothing if they're not sustainable. The former machinist or factory laborer doing customer service or applying lawn care chemicals or selling cell phones isn't sustainable.
Didn't see anybody here get to the real problem. Manufacturing has always been the core of America's wealth. The core is almost gone. The economy was always trickle up, from the manufacturing core.
The factory workers enriched the economy and were consumers in the economy. They were to key factor for most of the "service" economy. Call them the flywheel, the pilot light, the sourdough starter, or whatever you want.
Look around you right now. What do you see that didn't come from a factory or mill? Nothing.
All that "employment" of service workers for the last 15 years or so was not sustainable. Because America's "core" has been shipped overseas. It ain't hard to figure out.
People making 50 grand buying 300 grand houses and 40 grand cars. Full of stuff manufactured overseas. Paid for with more debt. Gimbel a break.
Didn't anybody here see that coming? Nobody here struggle to save for their first house and wonder how their kids could ever afford a house?
Nobody here ever work in a factory whose work was off shored? Nobody here ever work an IT job that was off shored?
Then you got your public sector salaries and pensions. Ever wonder why "administrators" pull down $3-400k salaries. Then $100k pensions after 10 years?
I don't know when this "wealth creation" BS started. Started noticing it in the Clinton years. Money grows on trees by shuffling paper.
Don't normally work that way. Wealth come from work and production. And making sure more comes in than goes out. That's why China is rich and we ain't. Just check out the history of trade balance.
Sure, some get rich by luck with Ponzi schemes like Wall Street equities. They got paid for investing to offshore jobs. But that's the exception, not the rule. Quirk of timing.
Anyway, in the end people usually get what they deserve. So the guy who got rich with stock "investments" deserves that. The SOB who laid off his own son deserves that too. Some people are laughers, some crybabies. Some just work every day and do both.
You work the "system" to do what's best for you. Same with changing the "system." If you don't like it, change it. Try not to be a sucker for anybody. Nothing new.
--Vic
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Vic Smith wrote:

A romantic notion.
Gone are the days of the hunter/gatherer society. It was replaced by an agrarian society.
Then the agrarian society was replaced by the industrial revolution.
We are at the beginning of the manufacturing society being replaced by the information and service society.
The largest employer in the U.S. is Walmart, and they manufacture nothing. They leave the production of goods to those who can do them best.
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wrote:

Right. Talk about romantic. Those tired old arguments about American society's evolution to a "service" economy lead us exactly where we are - rampant unemployment, soon-to-be second nation status to commie China. So they are true in that respect. All the societies you mentioned except the current American society involved sweat and hard work by a significant portion of the population in the production of goods. Like I said, look around you. You think all that "stuff" was magically created? Those who create the "stuff" call the shots. They own the world. Always have. And have Americans thinking that Walmart jobs are just great. Believe what you want. Just be aware that Walmart probably leads every state with employees on the Medicaid and food stamps rolls. Not something I ever aspired to, and not nearly enough slots at Walmart to provide the masses with jobs. Hard to fathom how anybody can hold Walmart up as the exemplar of the "New American service economy." Bet those Walmart employees provide a lot of work for other service sector workers, what with all the money they make to spend on services.
Anyway, I been making my argument for decades without much success. So your resistance doesn't surprise me. Many others who said what you do came around though. Usually right after their job got outsourced overseas. No reason to think how I do if you're working and making a good buck. Well, maybe if your grown kids or other family needs your "assistance," then you might think about it. That's happening to some. Don't know for sure if my argument is correct, but so far my predictions have come true. Maybe it's not as bad as I think. I'm just grateful I made and saved my money when "times were good." Thank the Lord for luck is what I say.
--Vic
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Vic Smith wrote:

I appreciate your romantic notion that making "stuff" is the secure way to a thriving civilization.
If you had asked a 1910 New Yorker about the future transportation problems when the population of the city reached eight million, he would probably have asked: "Where will we get enough horses and what will we do with all the horse shit?"
The fact remains that others can make "stuff" cheaper than we and attempts to reverse that trend are doomed. And we should not try because it can't be done.
We should do, instead, what we do better than the rest of the world.
Tabasco sauce comes to mind.
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I'd propose a massive cut in Federal spending. Extend the Bush tax cuts, and ashcan the Obama medical care take over. I'd propose simplifying the tax code, and make all elected persons subject to the same laws, entitlements, and medical care that thier constituents have.
--
Christopher A. Young
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Your ignorance is astounding.
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Christopher A. Young
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On 10/27/2010 9:10 PM, Stormin Mormon wrote:

I'm astounded at how those on the right know so much on faith. They have such faith in their own beliefs that they can not accept that they could be wrong. It's a fantasy world they live in and they are so convinced that everyone who thinks differently than they do just has to be wrong.
Tax cuts never pay for themselves.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Economic_policy_of_the_George_W._Bush_administration
The tax cuts have been largely opposed by American economists, including the Bush administration's own Economic Advisement Council.[10] In 2003, 450 economists, including ten Nobel Prize laureate, signed the Economists' statement opposing the Bush tax cuts, sent to President Bush stating that "these tax cuts will worsen the long-term budget outlook... will reduce the capacity of the government to finance Social Security and Medicare benefits as well as investments in schools, health, infrastructure, and basic research... [and] generate further inequalities in after-tax income."[11]
The Bush administration has claimed, based on the concept of the Laffer Curve, that the tax cuts actually paid for the themselves by generating enough extra revenue from additional economic growth to offset the lower taxation rates. However, income tax revenues in dollar terms did not regain their FY 2000 peak until 2006. Through the end of 2008, total federal tax revenues relative to GDP have yet to regain their 2000 peak.[12]
In contrast to the claims made by Bush, Cheney, and Republican presidential primary candidates such as Rudy Giuliani, there is a broad consensus among even conservative economists (including current and former top economists of the Bush Administration such as Greg Mankiw) that the tax cuts have had a substantial net negative impact on revenues (i.e., revenues would have been substantially higher if the tax cuts had not taken place), even taking into account any stimulative effect the tax cuts may have had and any resulting revenue feedback effects.[13]
Subtract out the W tax cuts and the costs of the two wars and wouldn't have the deficit we have now. Subtract out W's policy of letting the markets and big business do whatever was in their immediate best interest and we wouldn't have a fiscal crisis.
Now, here is how I feel about this. Either actually come up with some argument based on something other that your blind belief and supported by nothing more that your saying it is so, or resign yourself to being referred to as "Storm'n Moron".
Your call. Jeff
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On Oct 27, 3:41 pm, "Stormin Mormon"

And you expect Republicans to do all that? LOL!!!!!

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Bob F wrote:

Tax cuts increase federal revenue. Always have. It's the spending that unbalances the budget.
As for medical care changes saving anything, there's a one-word answer: Giggle.
Saving money in health care should NOT be the goal. Better care and greater access should be the goals, period. There are those that think these goals can be more closely reached by reducing cost - but they have not proved that case. Further, these same folks hold that the recent health care makeover will reduce costs - but they haven't proved that either.
What we DO know about the new health care law comes out in dribbles and drabs. Like this week, for instance, a new regulation that Healthcare Savings Accounts can no longer be used to buy over-the-counter drugs. So, if you have arthritis that can be alleviated by Alleve or an allergy that can be managed by Benadryl, you'll have to pay out-of-pocket.
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OR get a prescription from you doctor, buy the stuff out of pocket, and then reimburse yourself.
--
"Even I realized that money was to politicians what the ecalyptus tree is to
koala bears: food, water, shelter and something to crap on."
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