OT: Hybrid cars make no economical sense

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wrote:

Hey, isn't that a motto?
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what v6 gets 4mpg less than a 4 cyl hybrid?
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On Dec 10, 5:52 pm, snipped-for-privacy@webtv.net wrote:

The comparison I made in the OP was the 4 cylinder vs the 6 cylinder both non-hybrids Toyota Camry (made in USA).
After they refused to install a hitch on the hybrid the choice was between a 4 or a 6, got a great 2008 year-end deal and the hitch for free after I hinted that I might walk away from the salesman.
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Camry hybrid uses a CVT belt transmission and can't tow anything. But it sure accelerates smoothly and gets 37 mpg all around for us. Our 6 cylinder Avalon and 300M used to get 20 mpg is same driving.
wrote:

----------------------------------------------------------------http://www.minibite.com/america/malone.htm
The comparison I made in the OP was the 4 cylinder vs the 6 cylinder both non-hybrids Toyota Camry (made in USA).
After they refused to install a hitch on the hybrid the choice was between a 4 or a 6, got a great 2008 year-end deal and the hitch for free after I hinted that I might walk away from the salesman.
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Does it average 36 mpg city? That's pretty damn good.
40 mpg city (actual mileage)
Prius owner.
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olddog wrote:

this 'un does.
http://www.transmitmedia.com/golfTDI /
Not a V6, but it's got the torque of one. Yeah, I'm a big dubhead (but the last one I bought was a 1.8T because it has even more of that sweet sweet torque all the way from near-off-idle to its underrated redline)
nate
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That's damn good but I got him beat. 40 mpg city is what I get w/o trying. To tell you the truth I'm low balling the numbers just to be on the honest side. On the hwy the Golf doesn't even come close if that's what they actually get.
Olddog
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In my area, they're allowed to drive solo in the commuter lanes. Even the ones that get 19mpg.
Which explains the popularity.
It's just a big scam. If you can afford a $45,000+ Highlander Hybrid, you can get home from work faster than the rest of us peons.
Anyone who really wanted to be economical would buy a 2-4 year old used car.
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The problem with the Highlander hybrid is the same mistake they made with the Accord hybrid.... using a 6 cylinder to give V8 power instead of emphasizing mpg.
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RickH wrote:

You ain't wrong - of course a hybrid car makes no sense at an economical or ecological level. That's not the point. We need hybrid cars as a start. If we had hybrid cars 20 years ago, we'd probably have the infrastructure for fully electric vehicles in place by now. From an economic point of view, a car with a small diesel engine makes a lot more sense. However, the internal combustion engine at this point in time looks like dead-end technology.

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What infrastructure? You just plug them in at home. That's the problem there David, it's so simple no one will make any money. There are no parts to wear out no tune-ups etc. I bet you didn't watch the movie "who killed the electric car" like I had suggested, other wise you wouldn't say silly things like you did.
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snipped-for-privacy@gmail.com wrote:

You think electric cars have no moving parts, and battery packs last forever? You think all that extra power used by everyone plugging in a high-draw charger every night won't require extra capacity on the grid? (not to mention the additional pollution from the extra power plants that will have to be built.)
There ain't no such thing as a free lunch. Every approach to transportation has advantages and disadvantages. Electrics may make a lot of sense for low-mile-per-day commuter cars (assuming long-lifespan batteries can be developed), but right now they don't cut the mustard. You can store more BTUs per pound in gasoline, than in anything else currently practical.
-- aem sends...
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wrote:

Actually hydrogen that is why it is used in rockets.
Bob
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wrote:

From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Energy density is the amount of energy stored in a given system or region of space per unit volume, or per unit mass, depending on the context, although the latter is more formally specific energy [5].[clarification needed] In some cases it is obvious from context which quantity is most useful: for example, in rocketry, energy per unit mass is the most important parameter, but when studying pressurized gas or magnetohydrodynamics the energy per unit volume is more appropriate. In a few applications (comparing, for example, the effectiveness of hydrogen fuel to gasoline) both figures are appropriate and should be called out explicitly.
(Hydrogen has a higher energy density per unit mass than does gasoline, but a much lower energy density per unit volume)
a car could not carry enough hydrogen to be practical.
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Jim Yanik
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wrote:

Well,nuclear plants don't make any pollution.... trouble is that the environuts still are mostly anti-nuclear(???),and blocking new plants AND power distribution lines.(no matter what type of power generator!)
It also takes some *time* to recharge those batteries. So,long trips are out.

TANSTAAFL. 8-)

Yup!
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Well of course they have moving parts! However the maintenance on them is very minimal, compared the the "eternal" combustion engine. As described in the link below to watch for free on Google video "Who Killed the Electric car". I hope everybody who is passionate about this takes the time to watch the movie.
I have a house with 18 solar panels, generating 1200 watts per hour, I can sell my electricity to the grid if I were hooked up to it, or I could charge an electric car with them. The sun gives off more energy in one day than we have consumed in all of history! The problem is solvable, but not with the gas power engine. Like I said it's really quite simple, but it will put oil companies out of business. It is in their interst to do everything possible to keep us addicted to oil, away from the cure.
http://video.google.com/videosearch?q=Who+killed+the+electric+car&emb=0&aq=f#q=Who%20killed%20the%20electric%20car&emb=0&aq=f&start=20

You've bought into the propaganda. The technology has been here for decades. Again I urge you to watch the movie.
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On Wed, 10 Dec 2008 20:25:26 -0800 (PST), snipped-for-privacy@gmail.com wrote:

OK sell power that costs you around 50 cents a KWH for 15, that makes sense.
If you drive your car during the day you are not charging it from your solars.
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aemeijers wrote:

Probably no extra load on the grid inasmuch as the charging activity takes place at an otherwise low-demand time of day. Most fail to understand, however, that electric cars do not use a power SOURCE, they make use of a power DISTRIBUTION system. That is, the power is actually generated at the other end of the electrical connection (i.e., the power plant). Same with Hydrogen.
If some want to be eco-friendly, let's test their dedication. I suggest looking into wind power.
For automobiles.
It worked for thousands of years with ships.
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On Dec 10, 4:41 pm, snipped-for-privacy@gmail.com wrote:

Hey, you're exactly right! You don't need no stinking infrastructure! I'm sure you could plug your car in and drive about for dirt cheap! However, if your electric power distribution system is marginal, your main problem will be to make sure your neighbors don't have an electric car cause that would really mess up your plans for plugging them in at home. Good thing your town has an infinite source of electric power and everybody in your little town can just plug in at home, right? :-)
Now we can all whine about how the hybrid cars are not all that great or how big oil killed the electric car - that's fine with me. Personally I won't waste my time on this pointless activity. The reality is that the hybrid cars are preparing us all for the all- electric cars of the future. My belief is that what killed the electric car was the lack of infrastructure and the American people's unwillingness to commit to this technology. The conditions were not right at the time. Is the time now right? I don't know. What I do know is that the hybrids represent the first real chance for this technology to be come accepted and widespread. Let the whiners complain about the cars, the fact that manufacturers are building these vehicles and people are buying cars that have electric motor drives is an important breakthrough - although nobody seems to notice this.
I am a car nut and love docs. I could only watch about 10 minutes of this little flick. I find Hollywood stars talking about car technology an insult to my intelligence. Am I a bad person?
BTW Michael, for some reason my stupid google account, will sometimes log me in as meatmart2000. I sure wish it wouldn't do that... :-)
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wrote:

Hey, you're exactly right! You don't need no stinking infrastructure! I'm sure you could plug your car in and drive about for dirt cheap! However, if your electric power distribution system is marginal, your main problem will be to make sure your neighbors don't have an electric car cause that would really mess up your plans for plugging them in at home. Good thing your town has an infinite source of electric power and everybody in your little town can just plug in at home, right? :-)
Now we can all whine about how the hybrid cars are not all that great or how big oil killed the electric car - that's fine with me. Personally I won't waste my time on this pointless activity. The reality is that the hybrid cars are preparing us all for the all- electric cars of the future. My belief is that what killed the electric car was the lack of infrastructure and the American people's unwillingness to commit to this technology. The conditions were not right at the time. Is the time now right? I don't know. What I do know is that the hybrids represent the first real chance for this technology to be come accepted and widespread. Let the whiners complain about the cars, the fact that manufacturers are building these vehicles and people are buying cars that have electric motor drives is an important breakthrough - although nobody seems to notice this.
I am a car nut and love docs. I could only watch about 10 minutes of this little flick. I find Hollywood stars talking about car technology an insult to my intelligence. Am I a bad person?
============================================== Hey Meat. LOL
There were a few "stars" in that doc but for the most part it was based on events.
But I understand what you're saying. No you're not a bad person.
The elec car was a public relations disaster for GM because it proved elec cars worked and GM should of never brought out the product if they couldn't support it. They should of left it in research.
Olddog
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