OT: Health care struck down

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On Mon, 7 Feb 2011 19:28:16 -0800 (PST), BobR

because i'm a volunteer and my services are free
and what would have been the outcome if that guy didnt have health insurance?
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bpuharic wrote:

EXACTLY THE SAME! Unless you are making the claim that you were the doctor that treated and saved their lives.
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On Tue, 8 Feb 2011 16:29:55 -0800 (PST), BobR

uh...i'm not the 'healthcare system'
and you're saying that those without insurance get EXACTLY the same care as those WITH insurance?
really? that your claim?
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On 2/7/2011 9:48 AM, The Daring Dufas wrote:

It hasn't hurt. Battlefield medicine and urban trauma centers are first cousins, and when there isn't a war going on, military has used urban ERs as training venues. Air medevac and 'golden hour' trauma care protocols are pretty much straight out of the military lessons-learned file. 40-50 years ago, the shift to EMTs and on-scene stabilization, versus scoop-and-run (which kills as often as it saves) was also from military experience. Civilian ambulance services arose 100-odd years ago because they learned on the battlefield that it worked. Better civilian medicine is one of the few benefits of war.
--
aem sends...

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On 2/7/2011 9:20 PM, aemeijers wrote:

I think even lowly PFC soldiers receive training in emergency first aid that can save a life and soldiers are great at coming up with on the spot innovations. I believe soldiers figured out that female hygiene tampons fit bullet wounds and have saved a number of lives with such a simple inexpensive item.
TDD
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aemeijers wrote:

As an aside, there are other benefits to armed conflict.
Our warrior class gets to kill people and blow things up.
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wrote:

and they dont have these in europe? no auto accidents?
and gang shootings? there are 11,000 homicides here each year by gunfire.
3 million people die every year. or about 0.3%

well let's look closer, shall we? because 'europe' includes latvia and france
http://www.medicalnewstoday.com/articles/115086.php
In the international comparison, the researchers saw the highest survival rates for breast and prostate cancer in the USA. They also noted Japan as having the highest survival for colon and rectal cancers in men and France as having the highest survival for colon and rectal cancers in women. Canada and Australia also ranked relatively high for most cancers, while Algeria clearly claimed the lowest survival for all cancers in both men and women.
---------
so SOCIALIZED MEDICINE produces results AS GOOD as US results
for ALOT less cost while covering EVERYONE

really? got proof? we CAN pay more than france or switzerland??

golly. i guess that's why france has higher colorectal cancer survival rates than we do.

canada has 1/10 our population
and how do you get access to an MRI machine
when you cant pay for it?
so, again, you've shown that there is almost no difference in OUTCOMES
but we pay ALOT more while covering FEWER people
yep. the free market has failed

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bpuharic wrote:

But it's "socialized"! We don't DO socialized.
If eating fecal matter was as effective as taking an aspirin, how many people would opt for that regimen even though turds are free and aspirin costs a penny?
Same with socialized medicine vs capitalism.

I don't think you've wrapped your mind around the concept: The COST of health care is WAY down on the list of desirable features. We are, in the main, not willing to adjust the scheme so that cost is nearer the top if other characteristics have to move down (choice of physician, quality of care, availability of treatment, choice of insurance plans, etc.)
France has a better survival rate on colon and rectal cancers because of the sauces they slather on all the otherwise inedible food.
Geeze, why do I have to think of everything?
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That doesn't make an iota of sense. Could you explain?
Cindy Hamilton
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wrote:

yeah i know. regardless of the evidence
UNLESS it comes to bailing out wall street's rich. THEN we're socialist

evidence? any evidence? any at all??

i dont think you've wrapped your mind around the concept:
the QUALITY of care is NOT related to COST. we have MORE expensive health care and we do NOT cover everyone. the OUTCOMES are the same in the US vs other countries, except for the uninsured.

HAHAHAHAH really??
ROFLMAO!!! hollandaise sauce prevents cancer! yes, the right has this problem solved!
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I thought it was because they drink wine with everything starting in kindergarden. They don't actually live any longer, they just are much happier drinking all that wine.
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On 2/8/2011 6:18 PM, BobR wrote:

Your health is affected by your diet and there is the old saying "You are what you eat." Our friend bpuharic must consume massive quantities of something most foul. :-)
TDD
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On Tue, 08 Feb 2011 19:42:02 -0600, The Daring Dufas

...and it ain't chicken!
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snipped-for-privacy@att.bizzzzzzzzzzzz wrote:

And I ain't gonna eat it even if he swears it TASTES like chicken.
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On Tue, 08 Feb 2011 19:42:02 -0600, The Daring Dufas

gee. wonder what the socialist french consume that makes them live so long...
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On 2/8/2011 8:42 PM, bpuharic wrote:

I do believe it's the wine. Like a lot of older cultures, The French stumbled upon the health benefits of wine because of the lack of clean water to drink in the old days in Europe. There's a lot of information about the specific nutrients and their effects on the human body. There are indications that eating raisins and dark grapes with the skin can supply the protective nutrients without the dangers of alcohol.
Grapes and products made from grapes, such as wine and grape juice, may protect the French from their high-fat diets. Diets high in saturated fats like butter and lard, and lifestyle habits like smoking are risk factors for heart disease. Yet, French people with these habits have a lower risk of heart attack than Americans do. One clue that may help explain this "French paradox" is their frequent consumption of grapes and red wines.
My Italian cousins are protected from other types of disease because of their mass consumption of the ubiquitous tomato.
TDD
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wrote:

I don't know what it is now but do know that a few years back that they would have made far more profit if they has just put their money in simple interest savings accounts. They employ thousands of people to process hundreds of millions of claims to make something like 3-4 percent.
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On 2/6/2011 10:29 PM, BobR wrote:

Microsoft has a profit margin of close to 25% and I don't hear Commiecrats screaming EVIL RICH! every five minutes. I wish our friend bpuharic could understand that it's not the insurance companies driving up the cost of health care in this country. Simple things like a bolt for an X-ray machine can cost $25.00 because government regulations require a stack of paperwork to follow that 50 cent bolt throughout the life of the machine. There has to be sensible government regulation of any industry that affects the health and well being of the citizenry but onerous anti competition rules only drive costs up in any industry. Government interference has already driven manufacturers out of the country and it will be interesting to see what happens when medical clinics and hospitals start opening up in the Caribbean islands to escape interference from The U.S. Government. I'll bet Michael Moore and the rich Hollywood crowd will be flocking to those facilities. President Obama, his family and Washington D.C. lawmakers will never have to use Obama Care. They're set for life, the elite will never be at the end of the line like us little people. It was that way in the former Soviet Union, the elite Commies had everything, there was no rationing for them. I don't understand why the Liberal Leftists are blind to the simple fact that those they worship look down on them and couldn't care less about their lives.
TDD
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On Mon, 07 Feb 2011 01:25:45 -0600, The Daring Dufas

more propgaganda. everything but an argument.
the FACT is YOU have no EVIDENCE. none...that the 'free enterprise' solution works
where is your evidence? you can wet your diaper all you want. whine and complain about commiecrats until rush limbaugh sends you fan mail
that is not evidence.
I wish our

gee. other countries have similar machines.

other countries have 'socialized medicine'. that's about as regulated as you can get
yet they're more efficent than we are
Government interference has already driven manufacturers

other countries have 'socialized medicine'
so your argument is TESTABLE by comparing us to other countries
what you're saying is that our FREE MARKET SYSTEM does NOT WORK
thanks. i already knew that.
you can bleat all you want about the mythical govt regulation..but OTHER countries have TOTALLY REGULATED healthcare
and theirs is MORE EFFICIENT
and, by the way...uh...we had the LEAST regulated stock market and banking system of any country in the last 30 years
how'd that work out for us?? how's the economy doing?

tell you what.
you go have your mommie chase away all the commie monsters under the bed
THEN go get some evidence. prepare an argument based on FACTS
then c'mon back when you've grown up
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On 2/7/2011 5:33 AM, bpuharic wrote:

I've already experienced Obama Care when I was turned away from an emergency room at the county hospital run by Affirmative Action morons. Which is exactly what the whole medical system will turn into if that monstrosity of Obama Care isn't killed off. I'm surprised that you actually believe the Socialist elite really care about you. You will will understand some day, there's hope for you yet. :-)
TDD
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