OT: Hand pain

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Last week, I noticed some pain in my right hand. I attributed it to the baking I was doing ("stirring" viscous dough with a wooden spoon). I had been doing a LOT so figured my hands were just tired (it is pretty strenuous).
Today, after just ONE batch of biscotti, the pain has returned.
("pain" is a poor choice of word; more like discomfort... a feeling I could live with -- if necessary -- but would much prefer NOT to!)
But, I can't figure out *where* in my hand the "discomfort" originates.
It's not knuckles (I'm familiar with aching joints from having munged a few fingers over the years). It's more like the "meat" of the palm. But, I think it actually *is* the "meat" (flesh) and not the underlying bones.
Again, probably related to holding the 1/2" diameter shaft of the wooden spoon in my palm and forcing the spoon through the dough for 20-30 minutes at a time.
So, this puts the marketing of all those "large/wide handled" utensils in proper perspective! I guess (old?) palms don't like to be clenched as tightly? Preferring a more "open" use?
If this is indeed the case (i.e., I'm getting old :< ), then how is the larger grip making things less "painful"? Spreading the load over a larger surface? Allowing my palm to be "less clenched"? etc.
Is the pain actually *in* my flesh? Or, is that just what it seems like?
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On 12/5/2015 3:39 PM, Don Y wrote:

Maybe, maybe not, http://www.mayoclinic.org/diseases-conditions/carpal-tunnel-syndrome/basics/definition/con-20030332
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My 2 Cents formulated on Saturday :

Did you at least thank it and give it a kiss goodnight? ^^
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On 2015-12-05 4:55 PM, My 2 Cents wrote:

surgery it would get cold and go numb though.
--
Froz...

Quando omni flunkus, moritati
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On 12/5/2015 5:17 PM, FrozenNorth wrote:

I've got permanent partial numbness in index finger, middle finger and less in thumb from the carpal nerve being pinched in my neck. It can get pinched in several places like neck, shoulder, arm and wrist. Been about 8 years. One of the joys of getting old. Someone said if it don't hurt, it don't work.
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On 12/5/2015 7:20 PM, Frank wrote:

Frank, point of information. There's no such thing as the carpal nerve. The carpal tunnel is an anatomic space at the junction of the wrist and the hand through which passes the median nerve. The space is small and rigid and any one of a number of things can create swelling in the tunnel, pinching the median nerve.
The median nerve supplies several muscles in the hand as well as sensory areas along the sides and palmar surfaces of the thumb, index, middle, and in most people thumb half of the ring finger. The median nerve is made up of a number of spinal nerve roots that combine in the brachial plexus which is located roughly under the part of the collar bone nearest the shoulder and under the front shoulder muscles at the top of the chest. If any of the spinal nerve roots are pinched, or if the median nerve is pinched anywhere along its course through the arm, you can get symptoms in the portion of the hand that is supplied by the median nerve. There are tests that detect where along the path of the median nerve the pinching is happening. It's important to be sure before surgery; otherwise the surgeon may release the tissues around the nerve where they don't need to be released and of course that won't relieve the symptoms.
The ultimate treatment for carpal tunnel syndrome (if non-surgical treatment has been unsuccessful) is a carpal tunnel release, which is usually done under either regional or local anesthesia as an outpatient procedure. In that procedure, the carpal ligament, which forms the roof of the carpal tunnel (on the palm side of the wrist) is cut, providing more space for the swelling. The ligament doesn't seem to be important for normal hand and wrist function.
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Good stuff. I developed this in the computer biz and I (my insurance company) spent a lot of money to have the same thing explained to me.
Once I understood the problem, I didn't have it anymore. I changed my typing style.
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Details, please.
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On 12/06/2015 07:15 AM, taxed and spent wrote:

Don't bend at the hand/wrist junction. Keep it straight. Easy peasy!
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On Sun, 6 Dec 2015 04:15:49 -0800, "taxed and spent"

I caught myself rocking my wrists way back to get my fingers away from the keyboard while I was waiting for the computer to respond. Once it was pointed out to me what could be causing my CTS, I stopped that. For a while I kept hand weights next to my chair and I would lift them up, just letting them pull my wrists straight down while I was waiting. Some of that had therapeutic value, some of it was just to keep my hands busy.
Mainframe computers were a lot slower to respond in those days and we were on pretty slow dumb terminals. (1200 BPS modems with up to 16 terminals on each line). You spent a lot of time waiting and you certainly didn't want to hit a key and screw up your query.
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On 12/6/2015 5:15 AM, taxed and spent wrote:

+1
Many years ago, I was routinely afflicted with it. Debilitating pain. Learned the ONLY way to get it to go away was to STOP (not "reduce") the motions that were causing it.
And, to continue to avoid them even after you *think* it is "better"; else the pain would return very quickly. (things need time to heal; healing isn't complete until long after the pain has subsided).
Afterwards, reexamine how you're doing things and change your habits to avoid those stressors.
I had a similar problem in my upper back/shoulder. Same sort of searing pain from carpal tunnel. Of course, immediately started thinking along the same lines (as the solution I'd found for the hand/wrist).
First time in my life that this happened, I was drawing large schematics (E size paper -- 34" x 44"). So, lots of "reaching" to get to the top, side, etc. of the "page". Right shoulder always carrying a load (the weight of my arm). And, being twisted inward (in that "reach"). Got to a point that I couldn't lift myself out of bed (shoulder would scream when I tried to put the "load" of lifting my upper body on it). I had to practice rolling out of bed and landing on my knees. Then, lifting my body with my legs while holding my torso upright.
Later in life, problem returned: "Huh? I haven't used a drafting pencil in YEARS!! WTF??!"
Turns out, I was spending a lot of time with my shoulder "loaded"... holding my arm *up* for mouse in much the same way I'd done for the drafting pencil, years before! So, the shoulder never got a chance to rest -- in a LONG workday!
You can have similar problems if a nerve is pinched or irritated anywhere along its length. A friend has permanent numbness/cold in his hands from stenosis at the spine (as the nerves exit the vertebrae).
Annoying when your "sensory apparatus" misbehaves... you can "feel" all sorts of things!
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Will second that about changing typing style, I bought a mouse mat with a gel pad for the wrist, also learned as many keyboard shortcuts as I could, helped a lot.
Kenny
wrote in message wrote:

Good stuff. I developed this in the computer biz and I (my insurance company) spent a lot of money to have the same thing explained to me.
Once I understood the problem, I didn't have it anymore. I changed my typing style.
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On 12/5/2015 7:56 PM, Peter wrote:

Thanks for the details. I did not check on the name of the nerve. Mine was neck as shown by x-ray. Wife had same as shown by MRI.
Point is that hand pain could originate from some where else. Same for leg. I've had that one too.
Fortunately able to avoid surgery.
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On 12/5/2015 6:13 PM, Frank wrote:

Look at "Thoracic Outlet Syndrome"
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On 12/5/2015 2:55 PM, My 2 Cents wrote:

No, I had carpal tunnel problems decades ago. I'd never describe THAT as JUST "discomfort"! It hurt a LOT! Just touching the tips of my fingers would send sharp pains through my hand.
This is an ache. Like when you've carried too many squares of shingles up a ladder (and your arms/legs "ache"). And, constrained to the palm region -- not above the knuckles or below the wrist. The "meat" of the hand.
<frown> I've got to make another batch later tonight. I shall try to notice the source of the pain while making that batch. And, how it relates to the utensil I'm using...
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Oren expressed precisely :

<trying to picture a frog in me laig>
Thinking 'charlie horse', or 'cramp'. ^^
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Oren wrote on 12/6/2015 :

I used to have two Brothers Oren. We never did that, so now I'm wondering if My Grandson would get mad at Me if I did that to him. :')
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On 12/5/2015 3:39 PM, Don Y wrote:

Sounds to me like you bruised your hand muscle. They don't necessarily show bruising, though.

You might treat it as you would a pulled muscle.
--
Maggie

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On 12/5/2015 3:08 PM, Muggles wrote:

I suspect that is the source of the pain on the *outer* edges of the palm. I tried to be more observant of what it felt like to be stirring the dough with the spoon WHILE doing so...
As the dough is REALLY thick (imagine stirring cement -- literally), the business end of the spoon tends to want to stay wherever it is. So, as your hand tries to drag it around the bowl, the handle of the spoon tilts one way, then the other (depending on where your hand is in relation to the end of the spoon -- it's easy to see this if you go through the motions with the end of the spoon in a fixed position).
As such, the handle digs into the "pinky edge" of your palm, then, as you move the spoon around, digs into the edge between the thumb and index finger. Obviously, this keeps repeating with each pass "around" the bowl.
Each time the handle "wiggles", it squeezes the flesh of the hand between the handle and the underlying bone. So, it's the "meat" that complains.
But, I haven't figured out what is responsible for the "pain" in the center of the palm -- there's no comparable mechanical action...

More like a bruised muscle. OTOH, the discomfort fades quickly. Within an hour or so, I'm unaware of it.
Three more batches to go...
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On 12/6/2015 2:26 PM, Don Y wrote:

Pain in the meat of the hand (muscle) is caused by tiny tears in the muscle when it's strained. Muscles repair themselves and then become stronger the next time around.

Sounds like you're in the zone.
--
Maggie

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