OT - government, then and now

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Bush hunted down and didn't kill OBL, it must really stick in your craw that your hero couldn't do in eight years what Obama did in three
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On Thu, 16 Jan 2014 11:47:47 -0800, "Malcom \"Mal\" Reynolds"

...and now that OBL is dead, Al Qaeda is dead, right? Your messiah sure seems to believe in the fairytales you incessantly repeat.
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On 1/16/2014 1:47 PM, Malcom "Mal" Reynolds wrote:

credit for killing Osama bin Laden but you don't give him credit for thousands of innocent men, women and children killed by the U.S. military. So is Obama only responsible for terrorists killed by Navy Seals and not by other members of the military? He IS Commander In Chief of ALL U.S. military forces so HE is responsible for EVERYTHING they do even when a soldier murders innocent civilians. In your mind, what little there is of it, Ramboma jumped out of a helicopter with an M-60 machine gun in one hand and a Bowie knife in the other, wiped out all OBL's guards then ran up the stairs into OBL bedroom, confronted him and said, "Surrender or I'll organize your neighborhood!" to which OBL responded, "I'll never surrender to an Affirmative Action moron like you!" This really made Ramboma angry so he shot CBL in the eye. Ramboma really saved the day although he did lose one top secret helicopter which is now in the hands of the Chinese. We can't forget to give him credit for everything. We mustn't be selfish when giving Ramboma credit for his military prowess. ^_^
TDD
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On 2/10/2014 7:13 AM, The Daring Dufas wrote:

A couple weeks back, there was report of a military mission where the helecopter full of soldiers saw bad guys. They radio for permission, but were told not to engage. This happened repeatedly, until the bad guys shot down the US helecopter. Lost several US soldiers to that bad decision.
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Christopher A. Young
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Stormin Mormon wrote:

If the military was run in WWII like it is now, we would all be speaking German on the east coast and Japanese on the west coast. "Headquarters, we got German soldiers coming at us with guns. Permission to engage?"
"Stand by!"
--
Bill
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On 2/10/2014 8:23 AM, willshak wrote:

"Headquarters, we have Japanese landing on the beach."
"Put in the proper forms for ammo, we'll have them approved in a few weeks. Also we are manufacturing new 7 round magazines for your Garands, and 7 round magazines for your M-1 carbines. New 7 round belts for your M-60. We're also requiring micro stamping of all weapons, which must be turned in until the micro stamping is complete. This is direct from Washington and Sacramento."
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Christopher A. Young
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Yup, Johnson started all that micro management crap in Vietnam. Virtually by definition, American liberals are unable to trust the military to do it's job and accomplish assigned tasks without a presidential puppeteer.
Liberals have innate distrust of and disrespect for the military.
Conservatives have innate distrust of government as a whole and tremendous respect and appreciation for our military. Conservatives also have tremendous sympathy for our military when led by a liberal.
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On 2/10/2014 7:23 AM, willshak wrote:

Korean War? My brother did two tours in Vietnam and if the politicians had turned the military loose, the war would have been over very quickly. o_O
TDD
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Perhaps the Pelopponesian Wars? Politicians running wars has a long history.
Cindy
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On 2/10/2014 3:49 PM, Cindy Hamilton wrote:

WWII. Peloponnesian is Greek to me. ^_^
TDD
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Yes. Apparently I don't know how to stop spelling Peloponnesian. Get me going on the "p" key, and I'm just a madwoman.

Isn't war just the continuation of politics by other means? von Clausewitz would answer your specific question by saying all wars after WWII were run by politicians.
Cindy Hamilton
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On 2/11/2014 8:29 AM, Cindy Hamilton wrote:

and psychologically maimed. That's the tragic price we pay for war. o_O
TDD
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Yes, war is stupid and wasteful. But I don't see an end to it anytime soon. There are too many people who will shoot over "Who are you looking at, bub?"
My husband doesn't like to hear me say it's stupid and wasteful; he believes technological progress comes from war.
Cindy Hamilton
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On 2/11/2014 9:29 AM, Cindy Hamilton wrote:

I'm feeling so totally intimidated.
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Christopher A. Young
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By someone who can't spell Peloponnesian?
In my defense, I haven't often thought about the Peloponnesian Wars since reading Thucydides (in translation) in college lo these many years ago. (Where "lo these many" = 38.)
Cindy Hamilton
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On Mon, 10 Feb 2014 15:32:15 -0600, The Daring Dufas

That's bullshit. We lost that war because the Vietnamese people were against us. Maybe we could have destroyed the whole country, instead of just using chemical and biological weapons on large parts of it, but we couldn't win.
We prevented the free elections that were promised in 1956 because Ho Chi Minh would have won 80% of the vote. They fought against the French, then the Japanese, then the French again. We were footing the bill for 70% of the French war effort by the way.
So we finally got directly involved and lost, not because the military had their hands tied, but because we were on the wrong side. We got into that war with lies, the famous Gulf of Tonkin lies. Only two Senators, Morse and Gruning, had the guts to vote against it.
And frankly, we had no business there in the first place. Oh, that isn't exactly right. I had no businesses there, you probably had no businesses there, but the US corporate elite had investments that needed protected and that's why we were there. Not freedom, not mom, not apple pie. Money.
And, like the vast majority of people protesting that war, I had no argument with our soldiers, they were just doing what they were told. My cousin was in the army and fighting in that war. Our fight was always againt the poltiticans and ruling class that pushed that war.
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On 2/11/2014 8:29 AM, dgk wrote:

was Democrat cronies who made a lot of money off that war. It was Republicans who ended the Vietnam war. ^_^
TDD
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On 2/11/2014 9:37 AM, The Daring Dufas wrote:

Funny how the lefty, commie sympathizers re-write the cause of and the end-of that conflict. I guess the Paris Peace Accords did not mean much for the South Vietnamese, but the U.S. sure bailed ASAP. We are done, bye! Sorry for getting your hopes up. Yep, that's the last chopper and enjoy the slaughter that is coming your way, oh, and to our friends in Cambodia and Laos? FU too!
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The U.S. has not prevailed in a military conflict since 1945 (perhaps with the exception of Granada). With the kind of culture and consequent political leadership we have, we are not likely to win any in the future.
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On 2/11/2014 4:33 PM, VinnyB wrote:

Sadly, I think you're right. I wonder who's next on the admin list of battles. Christians, maybe? Conservatives?
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Christopher A. Young
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