OT Gas prices

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Subject: Gas Prices]

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Muff wrote:

This and similar messages have been passed on quite a few times over the last several years. It hasn't had any effect yet.
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Joseph Meehan wrote:

Bandwidth?
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High gas prices are a direct result of those in the auto industry who have stifled innovation - and those consumers who said to those companies, "Keep making crap". You vote for who runs industry by what you buy. For example, the Federal government even gave to GM - without strings - $100 million to develop hybrid technology in 1993. Where are the innovations that result in lower consumption and therefore lower gas prices?
Gasoline in 1970 was very cheap at $0.329 per gallon. What is that in today's money? About $1.65 per gallon. You tell me. Is $1.65 per gallon expensive? Why was that same price considered so cheap in 1970? Good people first learn numbers before having opinions. Gasoline in 1973 was $0.85 per gallon. In today's money, that is $3.70 per gallon. Higher prices happen when innovation is stifled.
First learn the numbers before speculating. Yes gasoline prices have risen. But then the efficiency of vehicles keeps decreasing. An innovative society does not make crappier products ten and thirty years later. Basic numbers show why gas prices and gas consumption in America has so drastically increased. Consumers who first don't learn the numbers told the industry to keep making crap - to not innovate.
Elect who promotes or stifles innovation by what you buy. Those who said "undermine America" elected technically ignorant industry leaders who then even promoted hydrogen as a fuel. Basic numbers of science says (obviously) hydrogen will not be an energy source. For starters, the distribution losses of hydrogen as a fuel have been estimated at up to 70 and 90% energy loss. Where are the numbers that say hydrogen is a solution? Numbers don't exist in science. These same executives would also take revenge on the LA Times for telling truths. And yet so many of us so hate America as to believe these bean counting liars - who even took $100million from the government and produced nothing. Ever hear of corporate welfare?
Want to see why gasoline prices are higher? First look at yourself. Did you demand innovation and purchase accordingly? Or were you so anti-American and anti-innovation as to blindly buy American - not first learn who is innovating. Consumption and prices are higher because so many of us said to these executives, "Keep making crap."
Blame the oil companies. That way you don't have to blame the man in the mirror. Did you believe those lies about hydrogen as a future fuel? Then look in the mirror for why energy prices must climb. An informed human always knew that gas prices of $1.50 - $1.75 was cheap. But an informed person first learns the numbers.
Muff wrote:

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Just remember, if YOU voted for Bush last November, you are now paying the price for that vote. And it WILL get worse. By 2008, only the wealthy will be driving. You chose that idiot for president, now you pay the price.
On Wed, 20 Apr 2005 21:05:08 -0400, "Muff"

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Muff wrote:

This has already been debunked. It includes inaccurate information and some poor logic as well.
I might add that even if gas was $2.65 in the US, it is still cheap compared to most places in the world. If you want to do something, use less.
--
Joseph Meehan

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This year 2 local Mobil stations have changed brands, 1 to Phillips, another to Marathon. A Marathon and BP have also closed, and a Shell was purchased by the local GOP free enterprise village government as part of a "redevelopment district".
JG
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@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@ wrote:

Following that train of 'thought'; then the law of supply and demand will kick in and the prices will drastically drop.
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"Just remember, if YOU voted for Bush last November, you are now paying
the price for that vote. And it WILL get worse. By 2008, only the wealthy will be driving. You chose that idiot for president, now you pay the price. "
Of course you didn't vote for anyone, cause you thought Democrats voted on Thurs, like Kerry is now complaining about, right?
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" High gas prices are a direct result of those in the auto industry who have stifled innovation - and those consumers who said to those companies, "Keep making crap".
Ever hear of world competition? Japan? Have any idea how many points of market share GM has lost in the last 25 years? Are you suggesting they engaged in a world wide conspiracy to stiffle innovation and lose market share?
" Gasoline in 1970 was very cheap at $0.329 per gallon. What is that in today's money? About $1.65 per gallon. You tell me. Is $1.65 per gallon expensive? Why was that same price considered so cheap in 1970? Good people first learn numbers before having opinions. Gasoline in 1973 was $0.85 per gallon. In today's money, that is $3.70 per gallon. Higher prices happen when innovation is stifled. "
First you claim gas is expensive because of the auto industry. Now you say it's cheap, so there goes that argument! Do you spend a lot of time arguing with yourself?
" First learn the numbers before speculating. Yes gasoline prices have risen. But then the efficiency of vehicles keeps decreasing. An innovative society does not make crappier products ten and thirty years later. Basic numbers show why gas prices and gas consumption in America has so drastically increased. Consumers who first don't learn the numbers told the industry to keep making crap - to not innovate."
The reason the avg fuel economy has decreased slightly over the last couple decades is not because the industry is making crap. If you compare apples to apples, today's car's are the most fuel efficient ever built. The decrease in MPG is due to the fact that consumers are buying larger, heavier vehicles, especially SUVs. Try opening your eyes next time you drive.
" Want to see why gasoline prices are higher? First look at yourself. Did you demand innovation and purchase accordingly? Or were you so anti-American and anti-innovation as to blindly buy American - not first learn who is innovating. Consumption and prices are higher because so many of us said to these executives, "Keep making crap."
What planet did you just come from? The US has lost huge market share over the last several decades to foreign competition. And if foreign manufacturers are so much better, why are there fuel economies for similar cars very similar?
"But an informed person first learns the numbers. "
That obviously excludes you!
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w_tom wrote: ....

Where is the documenation (numbers) for this assertion?
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snipped-for-privacy@optonline.net wrote:

At least Bush is TRYING to increase domestic production by opening ANWAR and Iraq.
And technology helps. Just look how many shopping trips have been saved by the internet.
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G Henslee wrote:

That too. :-)
--
Joseph Meehan

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HeyBub wrote: ....

At the cost of a zillion UPS shipments to individual homes instead of single-point shipments to distributor/retailers and local pickup w/ much more fuel-efficient individual autos and/or pickups.
I'd be surprised to find it a net gain from an energy consumption standpoint...
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HeyBub wrote:

Dear HeyBub,
Iraq isn't domestic... yet.
Lots to be said for Iraqi statehood, though. How would you line up 52 stars in the flag?
Steve southiowa
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On Thu, 21 Apr 2005 12:58:24 -0500, Duane Bozarth

Exactly.
Until they find a way to transport items thru the wires that connect our computers, no fuel is being saved at all, and in fact is probably using more. About the only time fuel is saved is when software or music is downloaded rather than mailed on disks or cds. Otherwise, every item bought on the internet has to be shipped using fuel, and often at a high price.
Jerry
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That may not actually be true, if they can plan their delivery routes efficiently enough. They don't after all, have to cover the route all the way from the store to you.. just from the last delivery point.
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Goedjn wrote:

For any given delivery, they minimize driving distance within their other constraints granted. But the hypothesis was that the massive increase in individual deliveries is more fuel-intensive overall than distribution to local retailers. Whether that is in fact, true I don't know (and don't even claim to be true), but I think there's a good chance it is. Could make an interesting thesis in a Transportation degree program.
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Look at gasoline mileage for the nation's fleet. If SUVs and other passenger vehicle 'exceptions' are added, then many automakers would be far below the once 24 MPG standards. SUVs do low gas mileage because they are exempt from national standards.
The fleet MPG is decreasing. Even worse, some automakers have optimized vehicles to make their EPA test mileages look better than real world numbers. The Corvette was a most glaring example. Its computer program was optimized so that the transmission would skip second gear during EPA mileage tests - to optimize EPA mileage numbers.
With passenger vehicles called SUVs now getting only 12 MPG, you tell me how the efficiency numbers are getting better. Even in 1968, a 350 V-8 did 17 MPG.
Meanwhile, do the numbers. Gasoline prices are only high where people failed to first learn numbers. Somehow they just know - numbers be damned. When gasoline prices hit $1.65 per gallon, then the emotional complained about high gas prices. Again, do the numbers. Gas at $1.65 has historically been cheap gas. No wonder only the import manufacturers develop energy efficient technologies. No wonder the head of GM is a finance guy rather than an innovator. No wonder GM management would hype mythical solutions (ie hydrogen fuel) rather then do serious engineering. Gasoline is still so cheap - when one bothers to first do the numbers before 'feeling' a conclusion. And gasoline prices will go even higher as innovation remains stifled.
I 'feel' Saddam had weapons of mass destruction. That proves he had WMDs? Same types also 'feel' gas prices are high. Numbers be damned. Emotion is proof enough.
Duane Bozarth wrote:

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....

.... Yup! Trust ya! And go to jail with you too. You've managed to do everything from spam to encourage a postal fraud crime here.
Rationalizing people all think they have the answers when all they have is their own rationalization.
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